Roch (MASN): DL Hall is joining Orioles tonight

[Pickles]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You do know why it’s important he (or any pitcher) misses bats, right? 

You know why Ks are important, right?

[oh-wee-ohs]

6 minutes ago, oh-wee-ohs said:

I'm starting to wonder if he was becoming unteachable and angsty about not being called up. Speculation only and he seems to be well liked. But, I'm sure he has been in the minors much longer than he wanted. He probably thought he earned a call up in the middle of that hot stretch after the tipping pitches comment. The Elias phone call, the obscure call-up, a B line-up debut without your favorite catcher catching you. "Alright, show us what you can do." That's a reality check. A teachable moment. "Trust us." As someone that's managed employees for awhile, I think all of this is very calculated.

I hope he comes out of the pen dominant thru the stretch. He's got loads of talent, no doubt about it.

Side note to this. I think the same happened with Mountcastle. I think he had no want-to to learn what they were teaching and wanted to prove his way worked and that's why he was kept down the whole season. In real life performance is one thing, but you don't get promoted if you aren't willing to adapt, accept change and fit into the company mold.

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by oh-wee-ohs

[Pickles]

47 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Missed 7 bats..below average swingstr% of just under 15%.  This is a guy that had a 40% whiff% on each of his pitches in the minors last year.

His stuff wasn’t impressive today and the stats and his pro career back that up.  It doesn’t mean he doesn’t have impressive stuff but he rarely got into the upper 90s and even Big Ben said he was expecting to see 100 today.  He was more 96 for most of the day. 
 

 

Swinging strike rate in such a small sample size without the context of the actual game action is almost useless.  The reason it was lower today for Hall was that he couldn't throw a strike.  The Rays just took pitches and walked or got into good hitters' counts and teed up.

The problem for Hall today wasn't that his stuff "didn't miss bats;" it's that he couldn't command.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Pickles

[baltfan]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

He had 6 Ks in 3+ innings.  Watching a changeup go down the middle of the plate because you can't get the bat started is every bit of impressive as a swing and miss.

Did you see jaw-dropping, dominant stuff?  Lots of guys strike out 6 in almost 4 innings nowadays.  Eventually he has a chance to be good, but he is a long way from that now and the raw stuff just wasn’t that amazing.  

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Swinging strike rate in such a small sample size without the context of the actual game action is almost useless.  The reason it was lower today for Hall was that he couldn't throw a strike.  The Rays just took pitches and walking or getting into good hitters' counts and teeing up.

The problem for Hall today wasn't that his stuff "didn't miss bats;" it's that he couldn't command.

Well yea, command was an issue.  It’s always the worry with him but even then, his stuff can be so electric that he misses bats.

But he didn’t have his good fastball and his breaking pitches were pretty mediocre.

His change up was very nice and fooled them but he didn’t have his top stuff today, that much is obvious and yes, the inability to miss bats was an indication of that.

I didn’t find his stuff to be overly impressive today but I also don’t think that’s an indication of anything other than he didn’t have his best stuff today.

 

[baltfan]

43 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And they are sending Hall back down.

We'll see how much service time he ends up with.

I also wouldn't be shocked if Hall is an up and down guy while he's option-able.  Could take a while to earn enough service time to reach free agency.

 

Who do they have on the farm that potentially could be dominant out of the bullpen in a playoff run?

[Pickles]

Just now, baltfan said:

Did you see jaw-dropping, dominant stuff?  Lots of guys strike out 6 in almost 4 innings nowadays.  Eventually he has a chance to be good, but he is a long way from that now and the raw stuff just wasn’t that amazing.  

I saw a LH starter with a 95-97 FB with tremendous natural movement; a plus changup which induced multiple looking Ks, and two breaking balls of different shape that both flashed plus.

If he is consistent and in command of the "stuff" he had today, he's about 90% of what the other guy was, which makes him one hell of a pitcher.

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Well yea, command was an issue.  It’s always the worry with him but even then, his stuff can be so electric that he misses bats.

But he didn’t have his good fastball and his breaking pitches were pretty mediocre.

His change up was very nice and fooled them but he didn’t have his top stuff today, that much is obvious and yes, the inability to miss bats was an indication of that.

I didn’t find his stuff to be overly impressive today but I also don’t think that’s an indication of anything other than he didn’t have his best stuff today.

 

This is a perfectly reasonable take.

As I said in another post, if he can command the stuff he had tonight he's a very good starter.  It's all about command.  And yeah, he probably didn't have his best stuff.

[Roll Tide]

9 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think the O's got a lick more for Schoop with the extra year of control attached.

A guy only has more value if teams think he going to provide excess value over his salary.

If a guy is a probable non-tender at arb 3/4 prices the team picking him up won't pay for that extra year.

At this point we don’t know whether that will be the case or not as he hasn’t made it yet. Some teams will covet it and others won’t care obviously.

[Roll Tide]

9 hours ago, brvn52 said:

If they deal him this offseason, I doubt 40 games of ML experience & service time plays much of a role in his value. 

This season ? Sure, however unlikely 

[Roll Tide]

9 hours ago, accinfo said:

Hindsight is 20/20.  Lets see how his career goes from here before we make any final evaluations.

Nobody was making any final evaluations on Hall’s career, at least not me. I’m saying the outcome was predictable and that he hasn’t been pitching well at AAA. Also, it’s not his fault as the blame lies with Elias. The rotation has been pitching well as a collective and it wasn’t necessary to mess with it. If I’m Watkins bumping me was a slap in the face and insult using me in mop up duty.

[DrungoHazewood]

11 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

He had a 5 ERA in AA and AAA this season. His trouble wasn’t amped up. He did what he’s done all season. Why is anyone surprised?

 

You know that a 4.52 ERA in the minors doesn't typically translate to a 12.00 in the majors, right?  Especially when it comes with 14 K/9 as a starter.

[Roll Tide]

19 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You know that a 4.52 ERA in the minors doesn't typically translate to a 12.00 in the majors, right?  Especially when it comes with 14 K/9 as a starter.

****** I Think********

where did I say it did? I said he wasn’t 

In his last three starts he allowed 6, 5 , and 2 runs. More troubling he walked 5, & 3 in his last two starts before call up. In his starts before the call up he lasted only .2, 4.0, & 5.1 innings.

Does that look like a guy that is dominating at AAA and forcing his way onto a MLB rotation that is pitching well? 
 

My point is, it was a dumb decision by Elias! It could very easily disrupt the guys, especially Watkins who he bumped and then pitched mop up duty. 
 

Further, I don’t know how good Hall will be in the future. I know he has great stuff. But, he needs to learn control in order to be valuable at the big league level.  I stand by my opinion about the call up. 
 

https://www.milb.com/player/dl-hall-669084?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

https://www.milb.com/player/dl-hall-669084?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

Edited August 14, 2022 by Roll Tide

[LA2]

11 hours ago, Gurgi said:

That depends on how he takes to relieving.  Once in a great while a guy actually relaxes some as a reliever and just lets it all air out for an inning or so.  Sometimes they get a nice boost in velocity.  If this happens for Hall he could be a very important tool.  Having a guy you can call on that gets strike outs at almost 15 per nine innings has value.  Imagine a tie game in the seventh inning.  Two out but two on.  And all you need is a K to get out of it.  

And end up walking two. Tanner Scott memories.

Edited August 14, 2022 by LA2

[Just Regular]

Spotty as it was, he still looked like someone I'd prefer to try for a few of the 18 or 27 innings in early October Weekend #1 if the Club is fortunate enough to get there.

The decisive bullpen messaging after the 1-start sample in part says to me they are keeping options open.    You can make his final ~18 innings last 6 weeks or 9 weeks by toggling him between 2 and 3 innings/week.