Reminder of what Orioles did in August 2012 to try to win a playoff spot.

[Jagwar]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You know that's nonsense.  Anthony Volpe is the #5 prospect in baseball, Isiah Kiner-Falefa is OPSing .635 and the Yanks are freefalling, so I guess they're idiots for not calling him up?

The April 2022 Rodriguez and April 2023 Henderson situations are very different. You just like being curmudgeonly and hammer this woe is us, the Orioles are intentionally  losing not only right now but also next year narrative.

I was much more interested in promoting  Henderson and Stowers on August 1. If they scuffled or appeared to be overmatched there was time for a course correction. 

Now we're almost 3 weeks from that date and only 6 weeks or from the end of the season. The analysis changes a little bit IMO because the risk of "scuffling" seems greater because there is less time for course correction. 

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Perhaps idiots was the wrong term, but you're clearly saying that Elias and Co. are and will continue to prioritize money and control over wins, this year and next.  When you don't have any idea what they're going to do next year and you can't know when they would have called up Rutschman without the injury.

You are a believer in history telling us what is going to happen.  You sat there yesterday and argued that gambling at the stadium was going to lead to the demise of human existence as we know it because you made assumptions.

Yet you are jumping on another poster for going with the idea that a leopard doesn’t change his spots?  That it’s fair to say these things because that’s how Elias the GM has operated?

Lol.  This is an incredibly hypocritical argument coming from you right now. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Sports Guy

[slakattack]

14 hours ago, ShoelesJoe said:

I see videos like this from the good old days and quite honestly it pisses me off. Where were all those rabid fans in the last four years? Nowhere. Those of us who drove three or four hours to watch our guys get massacred over and over again from 2017 to 2022 will likely get shut out or priced out when playoff time come again. Shut out by “fans” who wouldn’t know Joey Rickard from Joey Bishop. But hey, they’ll do the chant just like real fans which will be all that matters. 

That's true of every losing team's fan base.  I remember watching the 2014 ALCS games played in KC and looking at the crowd and being amazed by the lack of old Royals hats and shirts... they were mostly bandwagon fans.

[DrungoHazewood]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it is more accurate to say that thus far they have so we shouldn't assume that behavior will change.

To call me out for not having any idea while not calling out everyone stating with certainly that he will be on the roster is a bit strange to me.

At least I'm pointing to past behavior.

You're pointing to past behavior in very different circumstances.  Elias has said that when they are ready to contend they'll behave differently and prioritize winning over simply accumulating future assets.  Assuming that means now into next year.  Your assumption is, apparently, that he's not telling the truth.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You're pointing to past behavior in very different circumstances.  Elias has said that when they are ready to contend they'll behave differently and prioritize winning over simply accumulating future assets.  Assuming that means now into next year.  Your assumption is, apparently, that he's not telling the truth.

They are winning right now and have all year and yet they traded 2 important pieces and are leaving others in the minors.  Seems to me he is prioritizing the future right now.

What evidence exists right now, other than meaningless words, that say he is going to change?

And btw, I think Gunnar is up soon.  But acting like CoC is off his rocker on this is wrong.  Plenty of arguments he is wrong about but this isn’t one of them.  
 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Sports Guy

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You're pointing to past behavior in very different circumstances.  Elias has said that when they are ready to contend they'll behave differently and prioritize winning over simply accumulating future assets.  Assuming that means now into next year.  Your assumption is, apparently, that he's not telling the truth.

He said that Grayson would have a shot to make the team out of ST and preceded to give him 2 innings to make his case.

Would you say he was telling the truth?

He said Hall would spend "much" of the season in the majors.  Would you say he was telling the truth?

Of course he's deceptive in what he tells the fans.

[DrungoHazewood]

19 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You are a believer in history telling us what is going to happen.  You sat there yesterday and argued that gambling at the stadium was going to lead to the demise of human existence as we know it because you made assumptions.

Yet you are jumping on another poster for going with the idea that a leopard doesn’t change his spots?  That it’s fair to say these things because that’s how Elias the GM has operated?

Lol.  This is an incredibly hypocritical argument coming from you right now. 

The connection between this and the gambling discussion is tenuous at best.

And how is it hypocritical to believe Elias when he says that when the team is poised to contend he will expand payroll and do other things to shift emphasis from future wins to current wins?  Because you think that they should be all in right now, and should have called up everyone months ago?

You and @Can_of_corn will have a point if it's opening day 2023 and Elias hasn't really signed anyone of significance in the offseason, and several of Stowers, Henderson, Hall, Rodriguez are still in AAA.  I will gladly start a thread saying you two were right and I'm wrong.

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He said that Grayson would have a shot to make the team out of ST and preceded to give him 2 innings to make his case.

Would you say he was telling the truth?

He said Hall would spend "much" of the season in the majors.  Would you say he was telling the truth?

Of course he's deceptive in what he tells the fans.

They always say there's a shot to make the team out of ST. That is a very different type of statement than saying they plan to increase payroll and shift their focus.

I do believe that Hall would have been up earlier if he hadn't blown up after the AS break. Despite his struggles it still looks like he could get chances in a relief role. I don't think Elias has been dishonest about Hall at all. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The connection between this and the gambling discussion is tenuous at best.

And how is it hypocritical to believe Elias when he says that when the team is poised to contend he will expand payroll and do other things to shift emphasis from future wins to current wins?  Because you think that they should be all in right now, and should have called up everyone months ago?

You and @Can_of_corn will have a point if it's opening day 2023 and Elias hasn't really signed anyone of significance in the offseason, and several of Stowers, Henderson, Hall, Rodriguez are still in AAA.  I will gladly start a thread saying you two were right and I'm wrong.

It’s hypocritical of you because you love to talk about history being a precursor to the future.  Elias’ history says he will do what CoC is saying. 

Now personally, I agree with you and not him about what Elias is going to do but i think it’s absurd to act as if what a CoC is saying is some off the wall concept. 

They are winning RIGHT NOW and he is still prioritizing the future over right now.  It’s pretty easy to think more of the same could be the case in the near future.

[DrungoHazewood]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He said that Grayson would have a shot to make the team out of ST and preceded to give him 2 innings to make his case.

Would you say he was telling the truth?

He said Hall would spend "much" of the season in the majors.  Would you say he was telling the truth?

Of course he's deceptive in what he tells the fans.

Fans love to pick and choose interviews with front office folks and take every off-the-cuff conversation as a notarized plan of action that must not be deviated from.  I have no reason to think that Elias was lying, but circumstances change.  Managers of large, complex organizations don't issue Microsoft Project files to the public that document every changing inch-stone in each player's development.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s hypocritical of you because you love to talk about history being a precursor to the future.  Elias’ history says he will do what CoC is saying. 

Now personally, I agree with you and not him about what Elias is going to do but i think it’s absurd to act as if what a CoC is saying is some off the wall concept. 

They are winning RIGHT NOW and he is still prioritizing the future over right now.  It’s pretty easy to think more of the same could be the case in the near future.

What kills me is I'm not saying that this WILL HAPPEN.  I'm saying it might.

Somehow admitting it's a possibility based on past behavior is crazy talk.

I could see if this was a Braves message board and I was saying it.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s hypocritical of you because you love to talk about history being a precursor to the future.  Elias’ history says he will do what CoC is saying.

The future can provide guidance and lessons, but you have to use some common sense and realize when circumstances change behavior will likely change with them.  The Astros threw everything into development and accumulation of future assets, right up until they didn't.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The future can provide guidance and lessons, but you have to use some common sense and realize when circumstances change behavior will likely change with them.  The Astros threw everything into development and accumulation of future assets, right up until they didn't.

The Astros extended Altuve and started ramping up spending at an earlier part of the process then the Orioles are at now.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The future can provide guidance and lessons, but you have to use some common sense and realize when circumstances change behavior will likely change with them.  The Astros threw everything into development and accumulation of future assets, right up until they didn't.

Circumstances are changing right now and he’s still not changing. 

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The Astros extended Altuve and started ramping up spending at an earlier part of the process then the Orioles are at now.

Did they?  I guess this site could be wrong, but they say the Astros' payroll was 30th in 2013 (51 wins), 30th in 2014 (70 wins), 29th in 2015 (86 wins), 30th in 2016 (84 wins), and 18th in 2017 (101 wins).  Total payroll went up from '13-15, was flat in '16 then up significantly in '17.

Where are the Orioles in this chronology?  I'd say they're somewhere in the '14-15 timeframe where the Astros were last or 2nd-to-last in the majors in payroll.

Anyway, if you want to use this as a record of deceit, sure, why not.