John and Georgia Angelos have hired Goldman Sachs to assess the prospects for selling the team

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Contract clause that gives him every cent saved through service time manipulation.

I'd like to see how they manage the wording on that one.

[RZNJ]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's insanity to blow up the current pay structure.

I thought you were into innovation.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I thought you were into innovation.

I don't think blowing up the executive pay structure is innovative. 

[RZNJ]

28 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think blowing up the executive pay structure is innovative. 

There is no executive pay structure.  It's a free agent economy.   The structure, as you call it, it more like an informal setup by the owners.   Anyone who thinks a GM is worth 20M should certainly be allowed to pay it.    And you could make a case that a good GM is worth that much.

In fact, if Mike Elias said he had a 5/35M offer from a rival team, the Orioles would be stupid not to go a 5/50 to hold onto him.     Let's see.  10M a year to a Jordan Lyles type pitcher or 10M a year to a guy who has reshaped the entire organization?   Tough call.

Edited September 26, 2022 by RZNJ

[OriolesMagic83]

4 hours ago, RZNJ said:

There is no executive pay structure.  It's a free agent economy.   The structure, as you call it, it more like an informal setup by the owners.   Anyone who thinks a GM is worth 20M should certainly be allowed to pay it.    And you could make a case that a good GM is worth that much.

In fact, if Mike Elias said he had a 5/35M offer from a rival team, the Orioles would be stupid not to go a 5/50 to hold onto him.     Let's see.  10M a year to a Jordan Lyles type pitcher or 10M a year to a guy who has reshaped the entire organization?   Tough call.

I don't know how much Elias is making.  I would have to guess it's a million or less.  It wouldn't surprise me to see the O's let Elias leave instead of paying him what a mediocre reliever makes (5 million or so).

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I don't know how much Elias is making.  I would have to guess it's a million or less.  It wouldn't surprise me to see the O's let Elias leave instead of paying him what a mediocre reliever makes (5 million or so).

I seriously doubt he’s making that little.  

[OriolesMagic83]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I seriously doubt he’s making that little.  

Maybe, I doubt it's over 2 million.  O's have been shown to be cheap in many minor ways (food vendors, assistant coaches, flying broadcasters out of town, etc.)

[jdwilde1]

Dan Duquette was reported to be making $2M in 2016.  I would guess that Elias is making that now, but that’s just speculation.

[DrungoHazewood]

15 hours ago, RZNJ said:

It's insanity but when you think about it, a general manager is more important to the team than any one player.   What's insanity, to me, is that owners will pay 20 and 30M to a player but they try not to pay more than 3M to a guy who is more responsible for how the team performs than any one player.    

Salary isn't based on importance, it's based on the "market" as it exists with all of its influences and restrictions.  Sanity is setting expectations for salaries based on those real conditions, not a hypothetical situation where everyone is paid proportionally to the revenues or successes they bring the organization.

The player salary structure is set by collectively bargained agreements.  Front office salaries are not.

The reality is that there are only 30 MLB teams and 30 GM positions.  Yale and Harvard educated kids with advanced degrees line up around the block for unpaid internships working 80+ hours a week so that they can conceivably get on a track to one day potentially become a GM.  Elias is doing a great job, but there are a lot of people in the potential GM pool and just a handful of jobs come open every year.  It's a little like the market for good field, no hit shortstops - there are 1000 of them willing to ride the bus from Walla Walla to Kalamazoo for $1500 a month on the off chance a couple of them get to spend a year or two in the majors.

[LookinUp]

15 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think blowing up the executive pay structure is innovative. 

As RZNJ said, I think it's just like player free agency. Player 1 gets $30m per year, the next guy up ends up with $32m per year.

The point is that Elias will get offers like that if we don't make them, and we'll lose him. So you pay him what it reasonably takes. Is $10m too much? Probably. But that's not the point. The point is he needs to be priority #1 to keep over any player.

[LookinUp]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

Salary isn't based on importance, it's based on the "market" as it exists with all of its influences and restrictions.  Sanity is setting expectations for salaries based on those real conditions, not a hypothetical situation where everyone is paid proportionally to the revenues or successes they bring the organization.

The player salary structure is set by collectively bargained agreements.  Front office salaries are not.

The reality is that there are only 30 MLB teams and 30 GM positions.  Yale and Harvard educated kids with advanced degrees line up around the block for unpaid internships working 80+ hours a week so that they can conceivably get on a track to one day potentially become a GM.  Elias is doing a great job, but there are a lot of people in the potential GM pool and just a handful of jobs come open every year.  It's a little like the market for good field, no hit shortstops - there are 1000 of them willing to ride the bus from Walla Walla to Kalamazoo for $1500 a month on the off chance a couple of them get to spend a year or two in the majors.

I think this is a naive post. There aren't a 1,000 GMs who 1) have GM experience and 2) completely rebuilt a train wreck franchise into one that is the envy of most teams. 

I'm not saying he's the only one. I am saying he's one of 5 or 6 people in the world with that resume. There might be 5-10 more who can reasonably claim to be able to do the same thing, but without the results.

The new owner of the Angels would be an idiot not to try to hire Elias. Same with the new owner of the Nationals. That's two big market teams right there.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

10 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Maybe, I doubt it's over 2 million.  O's have been shown to be cheap in many minor ways (food vendors, assistant coaches, flying broadcasters out of town, etc.)

In 2018 Bob Nightengale tweeted that Elias was the highest-paid first-year GM in MLB history.  No amount was stated, but I doubt that it's $1M.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I think this is a naive post. There aren't a 1,000 GMs who 1) have GM experience and 2) completely rebuilt a train wreck franchise into one that is the envy of most teams. 

I'm not saying he's the only one. I am saying he's one of 5 or 6 people in the world with that resume. There might be 5-10 more who can reasonably claim to be able to do the same thing, but without the results.

The new owner of the Angels would be an idiot not to try to hire Elias. Same with the new owner of the Nationals. That's two big market teams right there.

 

I want to see if Elias can take the next step before calling him a great GM.   Okay, he’s gotten the team to being competitive and has an excellent farm system.   Now, can he convert that into a team that’s a legitimate WS contender?   That’s the ultimate test of a great GM.

Also, I see no point in wringing our hands about this when we don’t have even the slightest clue about the terms of Elias’ contract.   His contact could expire next year, or it could have five years to go.   Who knows?

[DrungoHazewood]

9 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I think this is a naive post. There aren't a 1,000 GMs who 1) have GM experience and 2) completely rebuilt a train wreck franchise into one that is the envy of most teams. 

I'm not saying he's the only one. I am saying he's one of 5 or 6 people in the world with that resume. There might be 5-10 more who can reasonably claim to be able to do the same thing, but without the results.

The new owner of the Angels would be an idiot not to try to hire Elias. Same with the new owner of the Nationals. That's two big market teams right there.

 

Four years ago Elias was one of a bunch of potential GMs.  Now he has a track record and would be more in demand. But the truth is MLB teams don't pay GMs anything like they pay top players unless they're really hiding things from the public very well.   If you don't like my naïve explanation you lay out why a typical MLB GM makes half as much as Jordan Lyles.

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I think this is a naive post. There aren't a 1,000 GMs who 1) have GM experience and 2) completely rebuilt a train wreck franchise into one that is the envy of most teams. 

I'm not saying he's the only one. I am saying he's one of 5 or 6 people in the world with that resume. There might be 5-10 more who can reasonably claim to be able to do the same thing, but without the results.

The new owner of the Angels would be an idiot not to try to hire Elias. Same with the new owner of the Nationals. That's two big market teams right there.

 

It’s not a naive post.  It explains why even top GMs earn $5-7 mm while very average late inning relievers make more than that.   No, it’s not true that “anyone” can be a GM, but the supply of people who could do a good if given the opportunity is greater.