The warning signs are there for the reading

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Es4M11 said:

There's no indication this is true at this time.

Yes. That is why I used the words "I suspect", and not the words "I know"

[Es4M11]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

Yes. That is why I used the words "I suspect", and not the words "I know"

Well you see, that's where you and I disagree. You give them the benefit of the doubt, I don't. And that was my point there.

[Too Tall]

My response. Sure, it would have been nice to acquire a better starting pitcher or a MOB by this date. It would surly have turned some of the dialog on this site in a more positive direction. And sure, I think I've said in the past, particularly starting pitching is a need. I've also said in the past, I didn't expect much until the ownership debacle is resoved along with the parallel MASN issue. Hence, I'm programing myself to enjoy and root for our youngsters and not sweat what we do or don't do re spending. That's my thinking, my approach and I'm not saying that should be anyone else's. Just putting out mine. Like I said in another post, it helps keep my blood pressure in check. I am looking forward to the 2023 season.

[HakunaSakata]

19 minutes ago, owknows said:

The market for trucks (both new and used) over the last year has been insanely inflated. It is only now beginning to calm down.

I wanted a truck. But decided not to purchase one because the prices were in my opinion inflated.

I think I made the right decision.

You want to buy at the peak of the market because that's what the market price is at that moment? Be my guest. Some of us prefer to watch for a bit.

First off, it's not your money so I'm not sure why your so overly concerned about a historically cheap franchise actually opening up their wallet. And your analogy is a poor one. Signing a starting pitcher isn't a luxury, like your new truck, that you can put off for a few years. It's an absolute necessity. 

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

The problem is the Orioles are not even trying to go toe to toe. More like toe to hang nail.

At some point ownership has to support the product that Elias has built from within.

As for your rotation, you have to remember that both Rodriguez and Wells will have innings limits placed on them. Even if you assume they all equal their performances or improve and you have no injuries, this is still a team that finished 4th last year and has not improved on paper very much while the others have.

 

They haven't dived into the deep end of the FA pool.

Some consider this a bad thing. I don't.

Rodriguez and Wells are limited. No doubt. Gonna need more than that set of 5.

I don't dispute that limited innings, injuries, failure to develop, and other things may offset some of the positives. Just as we may see some positive surprises. But on the balance we should add pitching.

Once again, I'm not objecting to adding pitching.

I'm stating that strategically, my preference would be to add it by trade than by free agency.

 

[owknows]

4 minutes ago, Es4M11 said:

Well you see, that's where you and I disagree. You give them the benefit of the doubt, I don't. And that was my point there.

So you consider Elias dishonest, and I don't. I understand.

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

The first line. “None of us wants to think the worst”.  Tony, are you that out of touch with your members?

I must agree.  We all think the worst. 

[deward]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

They haven't dived into the deep end of the FA pool.

Some consider this a bad thing. I don't.

Rodriguez and Wells are limited. No doubt. Gonna need more than that set of 5.

I don't dispute that limited innings, injuries, failure to develop, and other things may offset some of the positives. Just as we may see some positive surprises. But on the balance we should add pitching.

Once again, I'm not objecting to adding pitching.

I'm stating that strategically, my preference would be to add it by trade than by free agency.

 

Starting pitching is a need, not the only need. Why not use the current payroll flexibility to sign a Bassitt or even a Verlander on a short deal and then use your prospect capital to address other needs? 

[owknows]

14 minutes ago, deward said:

Which five starters do the O's have that will be better next year than Bassitt, Rodon, or Verlander? I expect significant regression from most of the O's current rotation in 2023.

The biggest problem with your plan, as I've debated with you before, is that it requires perfection. Elias can never make a mistake. Every trade has to work. Every prospect has to pan out. It's a constant threading of a tiny needle that will never actually be sustainable under real-world conditions. Even the Rays have been forced to endure down periods when the farm didn't come through. I prefer the team to keep all of its options open, depending on what the current circumstances require, rather than dogmatically cutting themselves off from avenues of improvement.

Thank goodness Elias will never make mistakes with Free Agents.

Signing them to long contracts... cuz that's what it takes...

Particularly to get them HERE... More dollars... more years... More risk.

You built a farm stocked with middle infield talent for a reason.

TRADE for your pitching.

Young emerging controllable arms for young emerging infielders of which we now have a logjam.

Did Chris Davis teach you nothing?

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, owknows said:

I'm stating that strategically, my preference would be to add it by trade than by free agency.

 

My concern is that they will not add any big contracts on vis FA or trade. We shall see.

[owknows]

Just now, deward said:

Starting pitching is a need, not the only need.

So TRADE for it.

Quote

Why not use the current payroll flexibility to sign a Bassitt or even a Verlander on a short deal and then use your prospect capital to address other needs? 

Because you're Baltimore. And just coming out of a rebuild.

You have to overpay in years and dollars to get players to come here... and they're already past their prime.

[HakunaSakata]

18 minutes ago, owknows said:

I believe that Kremer, Wells, Gibson, Bradish, and Rodriguez aren't too shabby.

And to the degree that you might want to supplement them, I believe that trade route is the more effective tool. Particularly given our emerging logjam of middle infield talent.

The reality of MLB today, is that not all teams can go toe-to-toe with the top teams on the left and right coast when it comes to free agent spending. I think its perfectly reasonable and perfectly sustainable to employ the trade as a substitute vehicle.

You do realize there's a middle ground right? No one's asking the Orioles to go toe to toe with the big market teams in terms of spending. Bassitt would have been a reasonable alternative to the bigger names that have signed and more importantly he wouldn't have blocked anyone of significance on a three year deal. Even the Rays made a big FA signing this off season because they realize that fielding a competitive roster with 100% internal players and players acquired via trade isn't viable approach to successful major league baseball. 

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

My concern is that they will not add any big contracts on vis FA or trade. We shall see.

I'm not sure they have to to get what they need.

It'll be fun to see. (although I suspect I'm more big-contract averse than even the Oriole front office is)

[waroriole]

10 minutes ago, owknows said:

They haven't dived into the deep end of the FA pool.

Some consider this a bad thing. I don't.

Rodriguez and Wells are limited. No doubt. Gonna need more than that set of 5.

I don't dispute that limited innings, injuries, failure to develop, and other things may offset some of the positives. Just as we may see some positive surprises. But on the balance we should add pitching.

Once again, I'm not objecting to adding pitching.

I'm stating that strategically, my preference would be to add it by trade than by free agency.

 

I don’t understand why adding SP by trade would be preferable. We have the salary room, especially for short term deals. Why give up assets when we don’t have to?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

Did Chris Davis teach you nothing?

The Chris Davis signing didn't cause the collapse.

It didn't extend the collapse.

Everyone aside from Peter Angelos knew the lesson already.