How about Cueto

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Going Underground said:

Frobby,go for it. Do you think Cueto will be a good fit for the Orioles? Make it so.

I’m just saying he’s fun.  Reminds me a bit of late-age Bartolo Colon.  I bet he’s still in the majors at 40.

[Yardball85]

 

[Frobby]

As I recall it, we could have had Cueto and Votto (plus others) for Bedard.

[Just Regular]

31 minutes ago, Frobby said:

As I recall it, we could have had Cueto and Votto (plus others) for Bedard.

An investigative job for the Adam Jones podcast if they can keep working back through the historical GM's and book Andy MacPhail.

[Roll Tide]

41 minutes ago, Frobby said:

As I recall it, we could have had Cueto and Votto (plus others) for Bedard.

Hard to know what was really offered but Cueto and Votto kills Jones and Tillman IMO

 

Tillman 8.7 WAR

Jones     32.6 

vs

Cueto    36.6

Votton    64.3

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Roll Tide

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Hard to know what was really offered but Cueto and Votto kills Jones and Tillman IMO

 

Tillman 8.7 WAR

Jones     32.6 

vs

Cueto    36.6

Votton    64.3

 

You have to confine your data to the years in which the players would have been under team control.  Cueto and Votto(n) are still active for goodness sake. 

[Roll Tide]

47 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You have to confine your data to the years in which the players would have been under team control.  Cueto and Votto(n) are still active for goodness sake. 

Jones was extended until he was done and Tillman pitched until he wasn’t any good. These guys probably would’ve been traded during the purge and would’ve netted something likely substantial.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Jones was extended until he was done and Tillman pitched until he wasn’t any good. These guys probably would’ve been traded during the purge and would’ve netted something likely substantial.

We likely would have been better off with Cueto and Votto, but I won’t complain.  The deal Andy got was still highway robbery.  The irony is, at the time, the Reds’ big prize was Jay Bruce, then the no. 1 prospect in baseball.   He didn’t turn out to be nearly as good as Votto or Cueto.  You never really know with prospects.  

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

We likely would have been better off with Cueto and Votto, but I won’t complain.  The deal Andy got was still highway robbery.  The irony is, at the time, the Reds’ big prize was Jay Bruce, then the no. 1 prospect in baseball.   He didn’t turn out to be nearly as good as Votto or Cueto.  You never really know with prospects.  

Nobody knew Bedard would flop

[Frobby]

38 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Nobody knew Bedard would flop

Well, I wouldn’t say he flopped, he just was hurt a lot in the 2 years he was under team control.  In those 2 years, he made 30 starts, pitched 164 innings at a 131 ERA+, and earned 3.1 rWAR.   This offseason, some team would sign him for $100 mm based on that track record!

But even if he’d been healthy and been worth double that, he wouldn’t have been worth anywhere near what Jones, Tillman and Sherrill were worth to the O’s in the years the team controlled them.  

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Well, I wouldn’t say he flopped, he just was hurt a lot in the 2 years he was under team control.  In those 2 years, he made 30 starts, pitched 164 innings at a 131 ERA+, and earned 3.1 rWAR.   This offseason, some team would sign him for $100 mm based on that track record!

But even if he’d been healthy and been worth double that, he wouldn’t have been worth anywhere near what Jones, Tillman and Sherrill were worth to the O’s in the years the team controlled them.  

True ….but I’d still prefer Cueto and Votto. I think I said so if you look back in the archives. BTW, I preferred Kershaw from the Dodgers. I don’t remember the other names but his 75.9 wins are better even if all the other players were a bust.

[Can_of_corn]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Jones was extended until he was done and Tillman pitched until he wasn’t any good. These guys probably would’ve been traded during the purge and would’ve netted something likely substantial.

I think you misunderstood me.

You can't assume that a player would have extended with a team, so in my opinion, the fairer way to look at something like this is to just count the time before the player would have reached free agency.  So for Jones it would have been the first six seasons.  For Tillman it would be longer since he spent multiple seasons going back and forth from the minors.

[Roll Tide]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think you misunderstood me.

You can't assume that a player would have extended with a team, so in my opinion, the fairer way to look at something like this is to just count the time before the player would have reached free agency.  So for Jones it would have been the first six seasons.  For Tillman it would be longer since he spent multiple seasons going back and forth from the minors.

I just prefer to look at the career. I’m not unhappy with the trade that was made. I just think we could’ve done better if the rumors were true.