Suggested Deal w/Marlins

[NCRaven]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think we're overrating Mountcastle here.  Great guy, no question about it...extremely likable.  But his skill set isn't irreplaceable.  

Granted, Lopez's skillset isn't elite and irreplaceable either.  But I think it's a lot harder to find a guy like Lopez than it is to find a guy like Mountcastle.  I'd rather have him for the 2 years and hope to extend him rather than Mountcastle for 4.  

How do I look this up in two and four years?  Damn where’s my smiley emoji?

Edited January 13, 2023 by NCRaven

[sportsfan8703]

47 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

They probably don't, but this is the OH and we're always thinking that other teams won't notice the flaws we berate our players about.  

Essentially, we think we're smarter than everyone else.

I’ll add this we played a lot of competitive baseball night in night out. Situationally they killed us. Their ultra aggressive approach was ok with the previous regime. Also, Miami doesn’t have the “Wall”. And their numbers look pretty decent over 162. But when we needed them the most, the slummed it up big time in August. 
 

Hays had a .566 OPS in July, a .638 OPS in August

Mountcastle was .541 in July, and .630 in August. 
 

So yes they killed us when we needed them the most. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

How do I look this up in two and four years?  Damn where’s my smiley emoji?

Probably just tell Frobby, he seems to be able to whip stuff up that happened awhile ago.

Or if you're really desperate put it on whatever calendar you use (outlook, g-suite) in 2 and 4 years from now to pop up as a reminder on a random date in 2025 and 2027.  

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

I’ll add this we played a lot of competitive baseball night in night out. Situationally they killed us. Their ultra aggressive approach was ok with the previous regime. Also, Miami doesn’t have the “Wall”. And their numbers look pretty decent over 162. But when we needed them the most, the slummed it up big time in August. 
 

Hays had a .566 OPS in July, a .638 OPS in August

Mountcastle was .541 in July, and .630 in August. 
 

So yes they killed us when we needed them the most. 

I realize that not everyone can have Adley's approach...but yeah, watching these two swing away at practically everything for two months was maddening.  

 

[sportsfan8703]

So if we have to give up 7 years of control of Hays and Mountcastle for 3 years of Lopez, then fine. I trust Elias will get that comp pick too. 
 

We need winners. Let them go to Miami. Put up their HR numbers, but I’ll take Stowers and Cowser. 

[RZNJ]

In 2+ seasons Mountcastle has 3.0 RWAR.   Last season Pablo Lopez had 3.0 RWAR.    In 510 career innings (roughly 3 full seasons) Lopez has 8.5 RWAR.    There's little doubt, regardless of position, that Lopez is the more valuable player.    Assuming healthy, Lopez is the kind of guys who will never be non-tendered but always in demand while Mountcastle will be a clear non-tender candidate in 2 years unless he steps it up quite a bit.

[Number5]

21 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

MLBTR says that the Marlins wanted Arraez, there's no one we really have that can match up with that.  I don't see a deal happening between us and the Marlins, despite everyone's best efforts here.  

Why would a team talking trade with MIA need to match a desire that MIA had that was rejected by the other team?  That doesn't make sense.  BAL may not be able to work out a trade with MIA, but any unrequited love MIA has for another team's player wouldn't be the reason.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

So if we have to give up 7 years of control of Hays and Mountcastle for 3 years of Lopez, then fine. I trust Elias will get that comp pick too. 
 

We need winners. Let them go to Miami. Put up their HR numbers, but I’ll take Stowers and Cowser. 

Unfortunately, no matter how much we yap about it on here, I don't think the Marlins are interested.  Can't really blame them, either.  I'd probably be annoyed if this were Marlins Hangout and we traded Lopez for Hays and Mountcastle.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Number5 said:

Why would a team talking trade with MIA need to match a desire that MIA had that was rejected by the other team?  That doesn't make sense.  BAL may not be able to work out a trade with MIA, but any unrequited love MIA has for another team's player wouldn't be the reason.

Beats me, I've never negotiated a MLB trade before.  

But I'd imagine they place a certain value on Lopez and what they'd need coming back from the other side, whoever it is.  For Minnesota, it started with Arraez at the centerpiece of the deal.  So I'm assuming they're going to want some kind of value that equates to what Arraez brings to the table.  It seems like if they value Arraez, they want a guy who can play multiple infield spots and get on base at a decent clip, even though if that on base percentage is propped up by a high batting average.

Now maybe they'd take someone who plays the outfield who can bring some offense to the table.  But no matter how you dice it up, I'm assuming there's a target amount of value they want to get back for Lopez.  Seems logical, no?

 

[LTO's]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

In 2+ seasons Mountcastle has 3.0 RWAR.   Last season Pablo Lopez had 3.0 RWAR.    In 510 career innings (roughly 3 full seasons) Lopez has 8.5 RWAR.    There's little doubt, regardless of position, that Lopez is the more valuable player.    Assuming healthy, Lopez is the kind of guys who will never be non-tendered but always in demand while Mountcastle will be a clear non-tender candidate in 2 years unless he steps it up quite a bit.

If we're all aware of Mountcastle's flaws, why wouldn't Miami be too?

[sportsfan8703]

I’m starting to like the idea of Gunnar at 1B for 2023 anyway. Go let him be Keith Hernandez for a year. Especially with no shift. Trot out five GG level defenders on a nightly basis. Mullins, Urias, Mateo, Adley, and Gunnar. Toss Joey Ortiz in the mix at 2B mid year. Have a COF of Stowers and Cowser. 
 

You can win a lot of freaking ball games with that defense. 

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, LTO's said:

If we're all aware of Mountcastle's flaws, why wouldn't Miami be too?

I didn't say they wanted Mountcastle.   Someone said that trading Mountcastle for Pablo Lopez would be stupid.

[Can_of_corn]

28 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I realize that not everyone can have Adley's approach...but yeah, watching these two swing away at practically everything for two months was maddening.  

 

Kinda like Jones and Schoop.

[Number5]

20 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Beats me, I've never negotiated a MLB trade before.  

But I'd imagine they place a certain value on Lopez and what they'd need coming back from the other side, whoever it is.  For Minnesota, it started with Arraez at the centerpiece of the deal.  So I'm assuming they're going to want some kind of value that equates to what Arraez brings to the table.  It seems like if they value Arraez, they want a guy who can play multiple infield spots and get on base at a decent clip, even though if that on base percentage is propped up by a high batting average.

Now maybe they'd take someone who plays the outfield who can bring some offense to the table.  But no matter how you dice it up, I'm assuming there's a target amount of value they want to get back for Lopez.  Seems logical, no?

 

Arraez is not on the table.  No, it is not logical to offer value equivalent to a player that isn't being offered.  

[Moose Milligan]

14 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Arraez is not on the table.  No, it is not logical to offer value equivalent to a player that isn't being offered.  

Arraez isn't on the table, no.  But it's plain to see that the Marlins want a player of that caliber.