Is McKenna's spot in jeopardy?

[eddie83]

In lineup today. 

[Jagwar]

My view is that we have seen McKenna's ceiling, not just in the role he can play but also in the value that he brings. He gives plus defense and speed, and can cover all 3 outfield spots, but he really hasn't shown he can hit major league pitching. I personally don't care if he is a RH bat off the bench if he provides 0.0 WAR and an OPS with a 6 handle. 

I've asked before, is there more potential overall value to the team with a player who can OPS .750 and play solid defense in LF/RF (maybe 1B too)? 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Jagwar said:

My view is that we have seen McKenna's ceiling, not just in the role he can play but also in the value that he brings. He gives plus defense and speed, and can cover all 3 outfield spots, but he really hasn't shown he can hit major league pitching. I personally don't care if he is a RH bat off the bench if he provides 0.0 WAR and an OPS with a 6 handle. 

I've asked before, is there more potential overall value to the team with a player who can OPS .750 and play solid defense in LF/RF (maybe 1B too)? 

I guess it depends on how comfortable you are backing up CF with Hays, Vavra, and Stowers. None are great options and I don't believe Vavra or Stowers have seen time in CF this spring. So that's the strongest case for continuing to carry McKenna, more than his ability to hit lefties IMO. 

Or, do you say sure those guys aren't great options but Hays can give Mullins a breather every now and then in CF, and you can get by with an emergency guy if there's an injury and then call up someone. 

Someone like Cordero - his main strength would be pinch hitting for RH guys like Mateo and Urias. But then you're weakening your defense later in the game. I guess you could use him to stack lefties, but then you're removing a good hitter like Hays or Mountcastle. So... I dunno. I still don't really see the benefit. 

[Jagwar]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

I guess it depends on how comfortable you are backing up CF with Hays, Vavra, and Stowers. None are great options and I don't believe Vavra or Stowers have seen time in CF this spring. So that's the strongest case for continuing to carry McKenna, more than his ability to hit lefties IMO. 

Or, do you say sure those guys aren't great options but Hays can give Mullins a breather every now and then in CF, and you can get by with an emergency guy if there's an injury and then call up someone. 

Someone like Cordero - his main strength would be pinch hitting for RH guys like Mateo and Urias. But then you're weakening your defense later in the game. I guess you could use him to stack lefties, but then you're removing a good hitter like Hays or Mountcastle. So... I dunno. I still don't really see the benefit. 

Good points. I suppose it all boils down to aggregate player value and wins. Is there an overall benefit to increasing OPS and run production by sacrificing defensive flexibility? 

[Tony-OH]

18 hours ago, RZNJ said:

They basically do the same thing but, at this point, Cameron still has more upside.  I think they’ll keep the status quo and see what Cameron does at Norfolk but McKenna should definitely be looking over his shoulder.

The key here is that they can keep both with McKenna on the roster and Cameron in AAA as depth. If McKenna struggles to hit lefties this year and Cameron is raking in AAA, he could lose his job but I doubt it will be out of spring training.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, eddie83 said:

In lineup today. 

I like that they are giving Vavra a long look at 3B. Being able to play both 2B, 3B and all three outfield positions helps his versatility. while he doesn't have the arm strength to play SS regular, he does have a lot of experience at the position so he can fill in there in an emergency as well. I'd like to see him play a little 1B too, just for experience.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I like that they are giving Vavra a long look at 3B. Being able to play both 2B, 3B and all three outfield positions helps his versatility. while he doesn't have the arm strength to play SS regular, he does have a lot of experience at the position so he can fill in there in an emergency as well. I'd like to see him play a little 1B too, just for experience.

Yeah, this is one of the main reasons I was theorizing that McKenna might not be as safe as we assume. If Vavra is playing 3B and they're comfortable with that, it's a much stronger case for him being on the 26-man roster. Either way, it's great to see. 

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The key here is that they can keep both with McKenna on the roster and Cameron in AAA as depth. If McKenna struggles to hit lefties this year and Cameron is raking in AAA, he could lose his job but I doubt it will be out of spring training.

Agreed.  That’s what I think happens.

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

Yeah, this is one of the main reasons I was theorizing that McKenna might not be as safe as we assume. If Vavra is playing 3B and they're comfortable with that, it's a much stronger case for him being on the 26-man roster. Either way, it's great to see. 

How would Vavra affect McKenna? McKenna is on the team because he's a right-handed hitting good defensive outfielder with speed. With Vavra hitting left-handed, I doubt he affects McKenna's roster position unless they really think Hays is the back up in CF to Mullins against tough lefties. 

I think Vavra is fighting for that 26th spot and it's between him and the left-handed hitting group of 1B/DH/corner outfield group (though Lester can play multiple positions as well). 

I truly do believe Cameron is McKenna's competition and even if Cameron looks better this spring, I think he goes to AAA as depth still.  

[interloper]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

How would Vavra affect McKenna?

My thinking was that it seems the team is intent on keeping one of the lefty 1B/OF NRIs (Cordero, O'Hearn, etc), and if they go with 8 relievers then one of Vavra or McKenna would have to be optioned to make room on the bench. 

If they go with 7 relievers, it's all moot.

If you don't think they're intent on keeping one of the lefty NRI hitters, then it's also moot. It just seems to me like one of these guys is making the team. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by interloper

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

My thinking was that it seems the team is intent on keeping one of the lefty 1B/OF NRIs (Cordero, O'Hearn, etc), and if they go with 8 relievers then one of Vavra or McKenna would have to be optioned to make room on the bench. 

If they go with 7 relievers, it's all moot.

If you don't think they're intent on keeping one of the lefty NRI hitters, then it's also moot. It just seems to me like one of these guys is making the team. 

Ok, I understand that line of thinking now. It will be interesting to see. I agree with you with as many of those 1B/DH/CO types he brought in, he must see a role for them on the team. I fear though that it will come at Vavra's expense. Shoehorning in O'Hearn onto the roster instead of Vavra would not be out of the question and fits what looks like Elias' plan from this offseason.

Because of Mullin's struggles against lefties last year, the only other option besides McKenna against tough lefties is to put Stowers in LF, Hays in CF, and Santander in RF with McCann DHing or catcher to give Rutschman a day off. That still means though you have to have Henderson, Frazier, Vavra or the left-handed hitting 1B/DH type starting. I think Mckenna, Hays, Stowers and Santander DHing makes more sense. Then again, Elias/Sig didn't let Stowers get many PAs against lefties last year. Hopefully they will let him hit against them this year.

[Frobby]

I’ve noticed that Hays has played a lot of CF while Mullins has been at the WBC.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I’ve noticed that Hays has played a lot of CF while Mullins has been at the WBC.

This was actually an observation I had had as well.  I think if McKenna "loses" his job it will be more about the determination that Hays can handle CF fairly regularly.

[Sports Guy]

Hays should only be in CF in an emergency. His COF defense has dropped off and he was never some great defensive CFer or anything like that.

You need a legit back up CFer on the roster.

[interloper]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

This was actually an observation I had had as well.  I think if McKenna "loses" his job it will be more about the determination that Hays can handle CF fairly regularly.

 

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’ve noticed that Hays has played a lot of CF while Mullins has been at the WBC.

Noted in the OP! This was one of my reasons for the thread. If they're comfortable with Hays spelling Mullins in CF, McKenna is a bit less useful.