Cole Irvin 2023

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

Love the move, love the aggression. Who cares if you are a vet. Perform or get the hell off my team. 

 

McKenna.

[Bemorewins]

Another thing that I will add that is Irvin related but not completely about him.

I’m concerned with this kind of acquisition and what we have seen in terms of trades from Elias or the lack thereof, that he may be more conservative/fear based in his approach to putting together a big league team.

I fear that his approach/perspective will be insufficient to the task at hand in terms of building a championship contender. We had/have a tremendous amount of organizational assets/prospects AND he thought to himself, this is the best I can come up with - trade for a guy with marginal stuff and extreme ballpark splits? Why? Because he is low risk? (Meaning didn’t cost much to acquire/low salary/still has options.)

At some point in order for us to win in our division and in the AL in general, he is going to have to take much more significant risk and be willing to swing big. Even if our ownership is a mess and a major impediment to his success. 
 

He built the team/drafted/acquired assets with imbalanced approach all along. All positional players, no pitching. He had to know the day would come were we would have to acquire top level pitching from somewhere, given that he has not drafted any. 
 

Houston eventually acquired their’s through trades until they could develop some. Was he apart of those decisions? Where does he plan to get that from? It can only come from 3 places - 1) Draft and develop 2) Trade for it 3) Sign as FA

We have not done #1 and we seem to not be willing to do #3. That leaves #2 as the only option. Irvin is definitely not the answer to option #2. - We are going to need to shoot MUCH HIGHER in our trade acquisitions for starting pitchers going forward. Can’t go cheap every where!
 

I hope this is a lesson learned for him and the front office.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Bemorewins

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

Love the move, love the aggression. Who cares if you are a vet. Perform or get the hell off my team. 

I am such a broken record to anyone I talk to about the O’s but I can’t get over how they filled their rotation spots over the off-season. Fans, analysts, twitter, management...all knew we needed 2 rotation additions. Accidentally winning 83 games 2022 while trying to tank. No money on the payroll, thin on pitching prospects. A deep, solid lineup. No glaring significant holes elsewhere (improvements can be had of course, but no gaping holes). The fact they filled those spots with Kyle Gibson (94 career ERA+) and Cole Irvin (87 career ERA+) just showed how unserious management/ownership is about winning. I'm glad Gibson has looked good so far but we all know what he is.

I can hardly watch the O's without getting mad at this sabotage. 

 

Irvin had 2 years and 120 days of service time in the majors going into the season..   I don't know that I consider him a vet.

[Bemorewins]

13 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

Love the move, love the aggression. Who cares if you are a vet. Perform or get the hell off my team. 

I am such a broken record to anyone I talk to about the O’s but I can’t get over how they filled their rotation spots over the off-season. Fans, analysts, twitter, management...all knew we needed 2 rotation additions. Accidentally winning 83 games 2022 while trying to tank. No money on the payroll, thin on pitching prospects. A deep, solid lineup. No glaring significant holes elsewhere (improvements can be had of course, but no gaping holes). The fact they filled those spots with Kyle Gibson (94 career ERA+) and Cole Irvin (87 career ERA+) just showed how unserious management/ownership is about winning. I'm glad Gibson has looked good so far but we all know what he is.

I can hardly watch the O's without getting mad at this sabotage. 

 

I’m with you!!!

After 5 years of tanking and with the organizational assets and prospects that we have, under good leadership/ownership/management we should be talking about dynasty/multi-championship runs. Instead, we heard a lowered bar of “possibly making a wildcard”. We should be well beyond this now.

[Bemorewins]

19 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The obvious is that Oakland is a pitchers ballpark.  The ball doesn’t carry at night and you’ve got all of that foul territory to have foul pops caught that would be in the stands of any other ballpark.

So the ball is going to carry at night here, especially during the Summer. And we don’t have that foul ground territory advantage. 
 

Again, I want him to be successful here, but I see a very THIN margin for success.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I’m with you!!!

After 5 years of tanking and with the organizational assets and prospects that we have, under good leadership/ownership/management we should be talking about dynasty/multi-championship runs. Instead, we heard a lowered bar of “possibly making a wildcard”. We should be well beyond this now.

Says who?

They lost 110 games two years ago.  

One top prospect has surpassed rookie status.

Who says we should be well beyond this now?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Says who?

They lost 110 games two years ago.  

One top prospect has surpassed rookie status.

Who says we should be well beyond this now?

They lost 110 games two years ago because they were trying to lose games two years ago.

They also lost 110 games five years ago, which, to me, is the more important date.

[Brooks The Great]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Says who?

They lost 110 games two years ago.  

One top prospect has surpassed rookie status.

Who says we should be well beyond this now?

Says anyone who can evaluate talent. The talent level is on another planet compared to two years ago, and the organization has an unprecendented amount of premium talent in the minors - both on the verge of helping the major league team and in the lower levels of the minors.

[bpilktree]

Cano makes sense because it is a short term move, just 3 days til Aiken is back so you don't want to burn any of the 5 you get for someone like Kreihbal.  If it was Aiken going on DL and expected longer stay i think they use him instead. 

[webbrick2010]

I think they are right on track

It was too early in the offseason to go after starters.

At the break we will be trading prospects for a legit 2/3 starter, just need to figure out what prospects to part with

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

Says anyone who can evaluate talent. The talent level is on another planet compared to two years ago, and the organization has an unprecendented amount of premium talent in the minors - both on the verge of helping the major league team and in the lower levels of the minors.

So anyone who can evaluate talent thinks the O's should currently be in the middle of a dynastic run?

You might want to go check those preseason predictions.

[Pickles]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They lost 110 games two years ago because they were trying to lose games two years ago.

They also lost 110 games five years ago, which, to me, is the more important date.

So the Orioles should currently be in the middle of a dynastic run because they tried to compete five years ago and instead lost 112 games?

 

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Says who?

They lost 110 games two years ago.  

One top prospect has surpassed rookie status.

Who says we should be well beyond this now?

Who else gets a 5 year rebuild? And then says, wait I need more time!

We were/are 2 big time starting pitchers away from being serious big time players. They could have been had in the offseason. 1 by F/A and 1 by trade.

We have an embarrassment of riches in terms of minor league positional talent. We have a AAA allstar team almost with guys who have nothing left to prove/do at the minor league level who are top 100 prospects but no place to put them on the Major League roster.
 

Where are all these guys going to play? You can’t field a team with 3/4 short shops, etc. It’s clear as day to anyone paying attention l, we needed and still need pitching.
 

What are we waiting on with a borderline contending team? What is the plan to get the Baltimore Orioles (not the Norfolk Tides or Bowie Baysox) to the next level? Where is the pitching going to come from? … Guys like Irvin??

We have already done the heavy lifting of rebuilding and restricting the whole minor league system. Now the focus should be the Major League team. The clock is ticking on Adley. If we don’t plan to sign him, we have him for 4 more years. How many more of those years should be wasting prioritizing accumulating more Minor league talent OVER Major league talent?

[Roll Tide]

32 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

Love the move, love the aggression. Who cares if you are a vet. Perform or get the hell off my team. 

I am such a broken record to anyone I talk to about the O’s but I can’t get over how they filled their rotation spots over the off-season. Fans, analysts, twitter, management...all knew we needed 2 rotation additions. Accidentally winning 83 games 2022 while trying to tank. No money on the payroll, thin on pitching prospects. A deep, solid lineup. No glaring significant holes elsewhere (improvements can be had of course, but no gaping holes). The fact they filled those spots with Kyle Gibson (94 career ERA+) and Cole Irvin (87 career ERA+) just showed how unserious management/ownership is about winning. I'm glad Gibson has looked good so far but we all know what he is.

I can hardly watch the O's without getting mad at this sabotage. 

 

I agree …no free rides

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Who else gets a 5 year rebuild? And then says, wait I need more time!

We were/are 2 big time starting pitchers away from being serious big time players. They could have been had in the offseason. 1 by F/A and 1 by trade.

We have an embarrassment of riches in terms of minor league positional talent. We have a AAA allstar team almost with guys who have nothing left to prove/do at the minor league level who are top 100 prospects but no place to put them on the Major League roster.
 

Where are all these guys going to play? You can’t field a team with 3/4 short shops, etc. It’s clear as day to anyone paying attention l, we needed and still need pitching.
 

What are we waiting on with a borderline contending team? What is the plan to get the Baltimore Orioles (not the Norfolk Tides or Bowie Baysox) to the next level? Where is the pitching going to come from? … Guys like Irvin??

We have already done the heavy lifting of rebuilding and restricting the whole minor league system. Now the focus should be the Major League team. The clock is ticking on Adley. If we don’t plan to sign him, we have him for 4 more years. How many more of those years should be wasting prioritizing accumulating more Minor league talent OVER Major league talent?

How's that rebuild working out in Det. or KC?

This idea that we were bad so we MUST be great now is silly.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Pickles