DL Hall 2023

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I understood what you were saying and have a different opinion. He was drafted pre-Elias and has always had issues with walks and inconsistency. Nothing "happened," he just is who he is and failed to develop.

Still not sure what was meant by "Shocking you would take that view" except that I have generally been down on Hall, but whatever. 

If they realized he was unlikely to develop,  since he *sucks* why didn't they trade him?  

It just seems you are putting all the blame on the player and none on the organization.

 

 

[Aristotelian]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If they realized he was unlikely to develop,  since he *sucks* why didn't they trade him?  

It just seems you are putting all the blame on the player and none on the organization.

 

 

I have proposed viewing him as a trade asset. Of course, I can see the upside case for giving him a shot to develop and we have no idea what the return might have been, so I am not really going to blame the organization for counterfactual trades even though I've personally been down on the guy. 

[Tony-OH]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:57 PM, Sports Guy said:

Right. Now, the velo was up, so who knows what they did and maybe it ultimately will do him well since they apparently wanted him to gain some strength in this deloading stuff.

We will see if it works or if it’s more pitching development Bs.

Well actually, his velo remained down during his last start.

Everything from velocity, spin rates and outside of his changeup, his swing and miss are down from last year still.

When you take in his injury history and the way he looks right now, I think the best move is to put him in the pen and see how he looks pitching every couple of days and on back to back days once inawhile.

It's time for the starting pitching fantasy to stop. He's never going to be a consistent rotation piece at the major league level and they need to find a valuable role for him.

Now could he take the long guy Akin/Irvin role at some point? Sure.

Now the Orioles may keep starting him and then include him as a tantalizing piece of a trade for another starter down the stretch, but they are risking him imploding a bit in a role he's not best suited for. 

[Fiver6565]

6 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Well actually, his velo remained down during his last start.

Everything from velocity, spin rates and outside of his changeup, his swing and miss are down from last year still.

When you take in his injury history and the way he looks right now, I think the best move is to put him in the pen and see how he looks pitching every couple of days and on back to back days once inawhile.

It's time for the starting pitching fantasy to stop. He's never going to be a consistent rotation piece at the major league level and they need to find a valuable role for him.

Now could he take the long guy Akin/Irvin role at some point? Sure.

Now the Orioles may keep starting him and then include him as a tantalizing piece of a trade for another starter down the stretch, but they are risking him imploding a bit in a role he's not best suited for. 

Question Tony.  When we traded Hader for Norris back in the day, was he already moved to the bullpen, or was he still viewed as a possible starter?  I know he was a good bit younger at the time (at least I'm pretty sure he was) but I'd hate to trade Hall and then see him become a lefty reliever w/ that much value.

[baltfan]

12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Well actually, his velo remained down during his last start.

Everything from velocity, spin rates and outside of his changeup, his swing and miss are down from last year still.

When you take in his injury history and the way he looks right now, I think the best move is to put him in the pen and see how he looks pitching every couple of days and on back to back days once inawhile.

It's time for the starting pitching fantasy to stop. He's never going to be a consistent rotation piece at the major league level and they need to find a valuable role for him.

Now could he take the long guy Akin/Irvin role at some point? Sure.

Now the Orioles may keep starting him and then include him as a tantalizing piece of a trade for another starter down the stretch, but they are risking him imploding a bit in a role he's not best suited for. 

I kinda disagree a bit. He is going to be needed by the Orioles to provide length out of the bullpen as the pen continues to be taxed. I see no harm in continuing to stretch him out a bit and still hoping he finds it.  Don’t think it will hurt his trade value either because plenty of teams will still see the potential for a hard throwing lefty out of the pen. 
But , most of all, I think the Orioles still believe. Elias was really high on him last year.  I doubt that has just gone away.  

[baltfan]

5 hours ago, Fiver6565 said:

Question Tony.  When we traded Hader for Norris back in the day, was he already moved to the bullpen, or was he still viewed as a possible starter?  I know he was a good bit younger at the time (at least I'm pretty sure he was) but I'd hate to trade Hall and then see him become a lefty reliever w/ that much value.

He was a starter but nearly everyone was projecting him as a reliever.  To the Orioles credit, they didn’t want to give him up and fought hard not to. Let’s also not forget that the Astros traded him too. 

[jabba72]

 

Some velocity readings from Hall's first two innings tonight

											Statcast Metrics
Rk.		Pitcher		Batter	Game Pitch #	Pitch	PA	Inning	Result	Pitch Type	Pitch Vel (MPH)	Spin (RPM)	VBreak (In.)		HBreak (In.)
1		DL Hall		Forrest Wall	11	7	2	1	Called Strike	4-Seam Fastball	96.1	2265	12	↓	5	←
2		DL Hall		Nick Solak	39	22	10	2	Ball	4-Seam Fastball	95.9	2299	13	↓	9	←
3		DL Hall		Forrest Wall	12	8	2	1	Ball	4-Seam Fastball	95.7	2288	14	↓	4	←
4		DL Hall		Nick Solak	40	23	10	2	Ball	4-Seam Fastball	95.4	2273	14	↓	10	←
5		DL Hall		Braden Shewmake	37	20	9	2	Called Strike	4-Seam Fastball	95.1	2264	13	↓	6	←
6		DL Hall		Forrest Wall	15	11	2	1	Ball In Dirt	4-Seam Fastball	95.1	2238	14	↓	8	←
7		DL Hall		Eli White	6	2	1	1	Foul	4-Seam Fastball	95.0	2178	14	↓	7	←

[Flash- bd]

23 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

 

Some velocity readings from Hall's first two innings tonight

											Statcast Metrics
Rk.		Pitcher		Batter	Game Pitch #	Pitch	PA	Inning	Result	Pitch Type	Pitch Vel (MPH)	Spin (RPM)	VBreak (In.)		HBreak (In.)
1		DL Hall		Forrest Wall	11	7	2	1	Called Strike	4-Seam Fastball	96.1	2265	12	↓	5	←
2		DL Hall		Nick Solak	39	22	10	2	Ball	4-Seam Fastball	95.9	2299	13	↓	9	←
3		DL Hall		Forrest Wall	12	8	2	1	Ball	4-Seam Fastball	95.7	2288	14	↓	4	←
4		DL Hall		Nick Solak	40	23	10	2	Ball	4-Seam Fastball	95.4	2273	14	↓	10	←
5		DL Hall		Braden Shewmake	37	20	9	2	Called Strike	4-Seam Fastball	95.1	2264	13	↓	6	←
6		DL Hall		Forrest Wall	15	11	2	1	Ball In Dirt	4-Seam Fastball	95.1	2238	14	↓	8	←
7		DL Hall		Eli White	6	2	1	1	Foul	4-Seam Fastball	95.0	2178	14	↓	7	←

That's promising. Sounds like the weight lifting program they've got him on is helping. 

[Going Underground]

11 hours ago, Flash- bd said:

That's promising. Sounds like the weight lifting program they've got him on is helping. 

Could not find anything online Does anyone know why DL Hall was taken out of the game after throwing only 50 pitches in three innings?

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Going Underground said:

Could not find anything online Does anyone know why DL Hall was taken out of the game after throwing only 50 pitches in three innings?

They did the same thing a few starts ago. I guess it’s part of the program he is on.

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Could not find anything online Does anyone know why DL Hall was taken out of the game after throwing only 50 pitches in three innings?

They have him throwing fewer innings and working out more to try and rebuild his fastball velocity.

[Tony-OH]

19 hours ago, jabba72 said:

 

Some velocity readings from Hall's first two innings tonight

											Statcast Metrics
Rk.		Pitcher		Batter	Game Pitch #	Pitch	PA	Inning	Result	Pitch Type	Pitch Vel (MPH)	Spin (RPM)	VBreak (In.)		HBreak (In.)
1		DL Hall		Forrest Wall	11	7	2	1	Called Strike	4-Seam Fastball	96.1	2265	12	↓	5	←
2		DL Hall		Nick Solak	39	22	10	2	Ball	4-Seam Fastball	95.9	2299	13	↓	9	←
3		DL Hall		Forrest Wall	12	8	2	1	Ball	4-Seam Fastball	95.7	2288	14	↓	4	←
4		DL Hall		Nick Solak	40	23	10	2	Ball	4-Seam Fastball	95.4	2273	14	↓	10	←
5		DL Hall		Braden Shewmake	37	20	9	2	Called Strike	4-Seam Fastball	95.1	2264	13	↓	6	←
6		DL Hall		Forrest Wall	15	11	2	1	Ball In Dirt	4-Seam Fastball	95.1	2238	14	↓	8	←
7		DL Hall		Eli White	6	2	1	1	Foul	4-Seam Fastball	95.0	2178	14	↓	7	←

Notable in that he never threw a pitch over 95 MPH after his 23rd pitch. 

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, Going Underground said:

Could not find anything online Does anyone know why DL Hall was taken out of the game after throwing only 50 pitches in three innings?

Because they are “de-loading” him to let him spend more time weightlifting and building velocity.  This was explained a couple of games ago.

[Sports Guy]

https://theathletic.com/4601882/2023/06/12/orioles-dl-hall-prospect-development/?source=user_shared_article
 

Hall is a gym rat. He believes his success as a power pitcher comes partially from the time he spends lifting weights. This winter, however, he dealt with lower back discomfort and doctors told him to stop pumping iron.

“I’m a power guy. I lived in the weight room, always building my power,” Hall said. “Power is one of my biggest things, so when I wasn’t really able to lift, it kind of took a lot away from me.”

For roughly three months, as a way to protect his back, Hall was instructed to stay away from weight training. Once he returned to full workouts in spring training, he concentrated on getting his arm stretched out to begin the season in a rotation — with either the Orioles or the Tides.

[Sports Guy]

More from that article:

More important, his velocity is creeping upward. On May 10, the start before his “deloading,” Hall’s fastball averaged 92.7 mph and peaked at 94.5 mph. According to Statcast, it jumped to 93.2 on average and a 95 peak on May 16, and was at 94 on average and 96.1 peak on May 23 and May 30. It did drop a bit in his start Thursday, 93.6 mph average and 95.3 peak, but his routine was thrown off by two consecutive game cancellations due to poor air quality near Scranton, Pa.

 

 

There’s also been another benefit to Hall’s “deloading.” Without having the blazing fastball, he’s had to focus on mixing his pitches, and he now has a lot more confidence in his ability to locate all of his secondary offerings. His command has often been a work in progress.

“It’s helped my pitchability tremendously … not being able to get away with misses as much as I could when I was throwing 98,” Hall said. “It’s been a pretty substantial difference, especially analytically. There were a couple of weeks where I was leading the organization in quality locations and things like that. … To go out there and compete my butt off with my ‘C’ stuff has been really big.”

 

That was one of the reasons Hall was willing to try the “deload.” He sees himself as a big-league starter, but since he has battled some injuries and also had success in the Orioles’ bullpen last September, there’s been speculation that Hall will end up as a full-time reliever. He’s willing to pitch however the Orioles need him, but his goal is to become a rotation mainstay. And this calculated program to up his velocity, while keeping his 2023 innings initially in check, is designed to have him ready for the rotation later this year.

“We hear the noise. We hear the chatter, and I had pretty good success in the last month of the year last year out of the bullpen,” Hall said. “You hear people say, ‘Just move him to the ‘pen, just move him to the ‘pen.’ But I know deep down inside I’m a starter, I did it for my whole life. Obviously, not at this high of a level, but it’s still the same thing. … It’s just that I’ve dealt with injuries these last couple of years and it seems like everything has been super untimely for me. But I think this is gonna be big for me as a starter.”

Ramsey, for one, is on board with Hall’s plan as much as Hall is on board with the Orioles’.

“I’ve always thought he could start. Four plus pitches from the left side, throwing 100,” Ramsey said. “If you can hone in the command, which he did a really good job of that early, if you can just build off of that, there’s no reason not to start him.”