Joey Ortiz 2023

[RZNJ]

26 minutes ago, Chaka Garcia said:

Seems like June is the date we start to promote talent at AAA. We secure the 7th year of control and we have enough data to see who’s legit/not just a great streak. Guys like Vavra, Ohern and McKenna are in danger.

I only see McKenna in danger if he’s replaced by Cameron or Haskins.  There would still be a role for a RH hitting OF.

[Bemorewins]

35 minutes ago, Chaka Garcia said:

Seems like June is the date we start to promote talent at AAA. We secure the 7th year of control and we have enough data to see who’s legit/not just a great streak. Guys like Vavra, Ohern and McKenna are in danger.

I can understand that rational. It sounds very reasonable. 

[Brooks The Great]

8 hours ago, RZNJ said:

I only see McKenna in danger if he’s replaced by Cameron or Haskins.  There would still be a role for a RH hitting OF.

Westburg. We're going to need his bat against LHP, and he should have plenty of OF reps by then. James McCann is not acceptable as a regular DH/C against LHP.

[Bemorewins]

I agree that we need a better regular bat than McCann and Varva who are getting regular ABs. 
 

But if Westburg comes up to play outfield, what does he platoon with Cowser? … Is that the best usage of young players?

[Brooks The Great]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I agree that we need a better regular bat than McCann and Varva who are getting regular ABs. 
 

But if Westburg comes up to play outfield, what does he platoon with Cowser? … Is that the best usage of young players?

Moving Santander to more of a regular DH opens up a good amount of playing time for Westburg at the onset of Westburg's promotion. After that, Santander needs to be traded so that Westburg can DH regularly on days he's not playing in the field. 

Once Cowser comes up, then Hays becomes a 4th outfielder against RHP unless Hays is still hitting really well (I doubt that will be the case, but it would be a nice problem to have). 

I think Urias is now the 1st or 2nd top priority to be traded along with Santander to open up playing time for Westburg, Cowser, and Ortiz. And Frazier should be bumped to UTIL bench infielder or traded in a salary dump.

Vavra and McKenna are the first two players demoted.

The amount of talent the O's have is absolutely unprecedented for the organization. But the team is wasting time and underutilizing its resources giving at bats to McCann and Vavra at this point. 

[Bemorewins]

6 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

Moving Santander to more of a regular DH opens up a good amount of playing time for Westburg at the onset of Westburg's promotion. After that, Santander needs to be traded so that Westburg can DH regularly on days he's not playing in the field. 

Once Cowser comes up, then Hays becomes a 4th outfielder against RHP unless Hays is still hitting really well (I doubt that will be the case, but it would be a nice problem to have). 

I think Urias is now the 1st or 2nd top priority to be traded along with Santander to open up playing time for Westburg, Cowser, and Ortiz. And Frazier should be bumped to UTIL bench infielder or traded in a salary dump.

Vavra and McKenna are the first two players demoted.

The amount of talent the O's have is absolutely unprecedented for the organization. But the team is wasting time and underutilizing its resources giving at bats to McCann and Vavra at this point. 

Oh wow! That is sounds extreme to me. Trade Santander and bench Hays so that rookies can come up and take more time to acclimate like the more talented ones that we already have on the team are in Grayson and Gunnar? 
 

That approach doesn’t seem like it really values maximizing our potential for this season’s team. I really hope that they don’t do that. I would prefer a strategy that involves trading some of the positional prospect excess for a starting pitching upgrade.

But thanks for sharing your perspective!

[Sports Guy]

20 hours ago, Chaka Garcia said:

Seems like June is the date we start to promote talent at AAA. We secure the 7th year of control and we have enough data to see who’s legit/not just a great streak. Guys like Vavra, Ohern and McKenna are in danger.

I mean maybe but those are bench guys who do and will play sparingly.

They aren’t bringing Ortiz or any of the top prospects up to do that.

[Brooks The Great]

3 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Oh wow! That is sounds extreme to me. Trade Santander and bench Hays so that rookies can come up and take more time to acclimate like the more talented ones that we already have on the team are in Grayson and Gunnar? 
 

That approach doesn’t seem like it really values maximizing our potential for this season’s team. I really hope that they don’t do that. I would prefer a strategy that involves trading some of the positional prospect excess for a starting pitching upgrade.

But thanks for sharing your perspective!

Trading the vets who are going to start getting more expensive through arbitration and potential extension fits the plan Elias has been executing since he arrived in Baltimore. The team will still be trading some prospects for areas of need (like Elias did with Hernaiz), but Santander and Urias simply don't fit the team's new hitting approach and philosophy as well as prospects like Westburg, Ortiz, Cowser, and Kjerstad who all have ETAs of 2023. 

I strongly feel the approach also does maximize the potential for this year's team as well. That's harder to prove for certain until we see the prospects hitting in the majors, but I truly believe the talent level of the prospects close to the majors is superior to that of guys like Santander, Urias, Hays, Frazier, McKenna, etc. 

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

Trading the vets who are going to start getting more expensive through arbitration and potential extension fits the plan Elias has been executing since he arrived in Baltimore. The team will still be trading some prospects for areas of need (like Elias did with Hernaiz), but Santander and Urias simply don't fit the team's new hitting approach and philosophy as well as prospects like Westburg, Ortiz, Cowser, and Kjerstad who all have ETAs of 2023. 

I strongly feel the approach also does maximize the potential for this year's team as well. That's harder to prove for certain until we see the prospects hitting in the majors, but I truly believe the talent level of the prospects close to the majors is superior to that of guys like Santander, Urias, Hays, Frazier, McKenna, etc. 

That to me sounds like a rebuild that is ongoing and never ends to a degree. I would not prefer that and don't believe that will work long term. People keep pointing to the Rays, but again their team success has been built on the consistent development of ELITE pitching. We have NO EVIDENCE as of this point that Elias can do that. He certainly hasn't drafted to do that for the last 5 years.

Now back to the players being discussed. I'm cool with moving Urias as we have prospects that profile in that spot like Westburg or Ortiz and may be able to give similar offensive production while not killing us defensively (though Westburg would be a sharp defensive downgrade and maybe Ortiz can be as good or even better defensively). I'm even okay and actually prefer moving Cowser into LF and Hays over to RF while DHing Santander.

But not for a second do I believe that Westburg and Cowser can outright replace Santander and Hays offensive production this season. Have you observed how the game's very best prospects have struggled to acclimate to the Majors right away including our own Adley his first 20 games and Gunnar and Grayson now?

[Frobby]

On 4/23/2023 at 10:49 AM, Chaka Garcia said:

Seems like June is the date we start to promote talent at AAA. We secure the 7th year of control and we have enough data to see who’s legit/not just a great streak. Guys like Vavra, Ohern and McKenna are in danger.

We already have the 7th year of control. We’ve had it for a full week.  Any player printed on April 14 or later won’t earn a full year of service unless he finishes in the top two for ROY.  If you want to wait until June to gather more data, fine, but years of control are not an issue.  

[btdart20]

56 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

That to me sounds like a rebuild that is ongoing and never ends to a degree. I would not prefer that and don't believe that will work long term. People keep pointing to the Rays, but again their team success has been built on the consistent development of ELITE pitching. We have NO EVIDENCE as of this point that Elias can do that. He certainly hasn't drafted to do that for the last 5 years.

Now back to the players being discussed. I'm cool with moving Urias as we have prospects that profile in that spot like Westburg or Ortiz and may be able to give similar offensive production while not killing us defensively (though Westburg would be a sharp defensive downgrade and maybe Ortiz can be as good or even better defensively). I'm even okay and actually prefer moving Cowser into LF and Hays over to RF while DHing Santander.

But not for a second do I believe that Westburg and Cowser can outright replace Santander and Hays offensive production this season. Have you observed how the game's very best prospects have struggled to acclimate to the Majors right away including our own Adley his first 20 games and Gunnar and Grayson now?

Elias has said that his goal is to build a perennial contender.  What that means is a bit TBD.  I suspect he viewed 2023 as a 'consolidation' year.  He's said he can see "buying" and "selling" type trades moving forward as well.  And I wouldn't be shocked to see both.

Personally, I'd rather us have legit WS aspirations vs. just making the playoffs a few years.  Which means we have a long way to go.  And ultimately means I'm still in the stacking talent mindset and would lean toward trading from the top.  I do recognize that it could mean the early Adley window could be compromised with that approach.

I'm hoping Ortiz is part of the O's future.  So, I see Urias, Vavra, Norby, and Westburg as our 'depth' guys I'd be more willing to trade (probably in that order).  I doubt they trade Gunnar.  But Mateo's performance (and the SS trade market) is what makes this whole conversation so interesting!  

[justD]

Congrats at-sign-headhunjoe on IG!!!

[Frobby]

 

[Frobby]

I was listening to an interview of Noah Denoyer and he was asked, if he was hitting, which Oriole prospect would he least want to face on the mound.  Denoyer answered that it was Ortiz.  I feel like Joey’s name comes up every time his teammates are interviewed, in one way or another.  I really have a good feeling about him. 

[Otter]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I was listening to an interview of Noah Denoyer and he was asked, if he was hitting, which Oriole prospect would he least want to face on the mound.  Denoyer answered that it was Ortiz.  I feel like Joey’s name comes up every time his teammates are interviewed, in one way or another.  I really have a good feeling about him. 

Wow, that's an impressive endorsement.  Wondering if Denoyer has ever played with Heston?  

If his bat can even come remotely close to matching his elite defense, we have ourselves a keeper.  (As long as Frazier is somehow moved aside...).  Or, I'd be perfectly fine with Ortiz in a trade package to acquire a starting pitcher.