Yennier Canó 2023

[Tony-OH]

15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The trade was panned nationally. A segment of people on this site aren’t really known in a case like this. 

By who? Who a these national panners? 

[Frobby]

20 minutes ago, owknows said:

Some of us saw Cano as a little more than a throw in.

 

 

Just re-read the first 12 pages of that thread.   SG didn’t like the trade, Can_of_corn was “underwhelmed” by the return.  I did a classic Frobby “wait and see” post, neither for or against, saying it was apparent the front office saw something they liked about those four pitchers they got back and we’d just have to see how it went.  Well, it’s going pretty well, I’d say.  I’m glad Jorge Lopez is having a nice season for the Twins, too.   Good guy.  

[owknows]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just re-read the first 12 pages of that thread.   SG didn’t like the trade, Can_of_corn was “underwhelmed” by the return.  I did a classic Frobby “wait and see” post, neither for or against, saying it was apparent the front office saw something they liked about those four pitchers they got back and we’d just have to see how it went.  Well, it’s going pretty well, I’d say.  I’m glad Jorge Lopez is having a nice season for the Twins, too.   Good guy.  

I posted that I thought they traded him at peak... he was already showing signs of modest regression.. and that they got great value.. and also that Cano would turn out to significantly exceed expectations.

I'd call that a win

[RVAOsFan]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just re-read the first 12 pages of that thread.   SG didn’t like the trade, Can_of_corn was “underwhelmed” by the return.  I did a classic Frobby “wait and see” post, neither for or against, saying it was apparent the front office saw something they liked about those four pitchers they got back and we’d just have to see how it went.  Well, it’s going pretty well, I’d say.  I’m glad Jorge Lopez is having a nice season for the Twins, too.   Good guy.  

Those darn receipts 

[Sports Guy]

24 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

I’d take it a step further and say that any team trading away it’s good players while in contention is going to get panned by the casual fan base and most main stream media regardless of the return. The same fans that expect their team to sign every good FA to a 200 mil extension without considering the long term implications.

Way more of those out there than hangouters and other hardcores.

That’s exactly right. And many people panned it solely because you took one of the MVPs of the team off of it in a season you are contending after years of being a joke of a franchise.

[Can_of_corn]

21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just re-read the first 12 pages of that thread.   SG didn’t like the trade, Can_of_corn was “underwhelmed” by the return.  I did a classic Frobby “wait and see” post, neither for or against, saying it was apparent the front office saw something they liked about those four pitchers they got back and we’d just have to see how it went.  Well, it’s going pretty well, I’d say.  I’m glad Jorge Lopez is having a nice season for the Twins, too.   Good guy.  

Yep, I said it.  Was about all I said about it.

I'm properly whelmed now.

[Tony-OH]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just re-read the first 12 pages of that thread.   SG didn’t like the trade, Can_of_corn was “underwhelmed” by the return.  I did a classic Frobby “wait and see” post, neither for or against, saying it was apparent the front office saw something they liked about those four pitchers they got back and we’d just have to see how it went.  Well, it’s going pretty well, I’d say.  I’m glad Jorge Lopez is having a nice season for the Twins, too.   Good guy.  

Ah, that's why Sports Guy remembers the trade from a negative standpoint. 

I can't claim victory for liking the trade until Povich shows up and pitches well because I felt like Cano, while having a good arm, was a bit of a throw in who might be a middle reliever. Nobody saw what he has become since no one has really done what he's done after being so bad.

Still, the trade always made sense because Lopez is exactly the kind of guy you sell high on, particularly when you have his replacement on hand and your replacement's replacement in Baker.

[Hallas]

36 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

By who? Who a these national panners? 

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/insider/story/_/id/34334052/trade-grades-minnesota-twins-add-all-star-closer-jorge-lopez-baltimore-orioles-get-another-f

Here's one.

 

I think a large part of how you feel about this trade hinges on how realistic you think the Orioles' chances at staying in contention were.  If you bought fully into Fangraphs or other ZIPS-based projections tools that basically said the O's had a snowball's chance in hell, then this is at least a B-grade trade.  If you thought that the O's should buy into their record and try to bolster a 30-40% playoff chance, then you likely gave this trade a D or F.  As it turned out, the O's missed the playoffs by 3 games, so you could make a decent argument that the latter crowd had a point.  Lopez and Mancini might have accounted for 1.5 of those games, so with them we would have missed the playoffs still, but we might have been able to swing a trade to make up the other 1.5 games.

 

I was okay with trading then, because I wasn't entirely sold on the winning, and because I felt like we'd be trading away prospects with incomplete information.  This trade deadline I'll feel much, much worse if we aren't buyers.  We have a backlog of blocked talent in the high minors, and we have the 2nd best record in baseball, while sitting in the toughest division.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Hallas

[foxfield]

7 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Really good article, but I'm not sure why the author seems to think the Lopez trade was an "unpopular trade in his new hometown" and then doubled down by saying the trade was a "somewhat surprising and hardly well-received decision.'

By whom? The trade was certainly well received around here by most people since it included a nice starting pitching prospect in Povich and the emergence of Bautista as a Lopez replacement. Maybe the twitter knuckleheads didn't like the trade, but not sure why he's so convinced the hometown disliked the trade that acquired Cano.

Now I fully agree that Cano was a throw in.

Writer is probably friends with SportsGuy.  So he understands we could have gotten all of those guys and kept Lopez...EASY.  

[Tony-OH]

24 minutes ago, Hallas said:

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/insider/story/_/id/34334052/trade-grades-minnesota-twins-add-all-star-closer-jorge-lopez-baltimore-orioles-get-another-f

Here's one.

 

I think a large part of how you feel about this trade hinges on how realistic you think the Orioles' chances at staying in contention were.  If you bought fully into Fangraphs or other ZIPS-based projections tools that basically said the O's had a snowball's chance in hell, then this is at least a B-grade trade.  If you thought that the O's should buy into their record and try to bolster a 30-40% playoff chance, then you likely gave this trade a D or F.

Well I can't read the whole thing since I'd rather take my money and burn it than give it to ESPN, but it seems like he's looking at it from the Twins end, at least from the beginning of the article. Either way, I think it is overly simplified to say that this trade was panned.

Besides, I have no idea who Bradford Doolittle is and why I should care about his opinion on the trade. At the end of the day, the Orioles bullpen was even better after Lopez was traded and Bautista out performed Lopez. So even on last year's merit's alone, Lopez's replacement did better than him and Baker was just fine as Bautista's replacement. Either way, the Orioles weren't making the playoffs. They were a team still playing Odor everyday and signed Aguilar and gave him regular PAs against left-handers.

So when you add in that the Orioles got a legitimate starting pitching prospect in Povich who has touched 95-96 this year, Cano and two DR lottery tickets, I don't see how it can be debating any longer. If you were against this trade you were wrong. Clear and simple.

[Moose Milligan]

 

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Looks like a little lower arm slot in 2023.

[Tony-OH]

18 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Well I can't read the whole thing since I'd rather take my money and burn it than give it to ESPN, but it seems like he's looking at it from the Twins end, at least from the beginning of the article. Either way, I think it is overly simplified to say that this trade was panned.

Besides, I have no idea who Bradford Doolittle is and why I should care about his opinion on the trade. At the end of the day, the Orioles bullpen was even better after Lopez was traded and Bautista out performed Lopez. So even on last year's merit's alone, Lopez's replacement did better than him and Baker was just fine as Bautista's replacement. Either way, the Orioles weren't making the playoffs. They were a team still playing Odor everyday and signed Aguilar and gave him regular PAs against left-handers.

So when you add in that the Orioles got a legitimate starting pitching prospect in Povich who has touched 95-96 this year, Cano and two DR lottery tickets, I don't see how it can be debating any longer. If you were against this trade you were wrong. Clear and simple.

Oh wait, I just actually read the title of that article: "Trade grades: Minnesota Twins add All-Star closer Jorge Lopez as Baltimore Orioles get another F"

So this "analyst" gave this trade an F! Bwahahaha. Do people really pay to read this kind of analysis? If I were a paying customer I literally would have cancelled after that hit take! 

[sportsfan8703]

17 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

We need to give a substantial raise to whoever did this to Cano. 

[Frobby]

We did do a poll on the Lopez trade.  Opinion was pretty evenly split, among those who actually had an opinion.