3 LHP in Detroit... Could we see Westburg? (EDIT: It's Ortiz instead)

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Sure we could see Westburg…if we get MiLB.tv.   

I don’t think a call-up decision will be based on whether the pitchers we are facing for a couple of days are LHP or RHP.   It’s a long term decision.  
 

This.

Other than expediency, and with Westburg not on the 40 man prettyd much excludes him, Elias has been clear: He will call up prospects when he thinks they are ready to stay permanently in MLB.

He's not going to call guys up to "see what they can do" or to gain a platoon advantage for a game or two.

[bpilktree]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We have 60 day IL options to open up a 40 man spot. 
 

1. 60 day IL Seth Johnson. However, I think this would start his service clock?  I’m not sure, but we know how Elias is with service Clocks. 
 

2 & 3.  60 day IL Tate and/or Givens. They would be eligible to come off the 60 day IL on 5/26 or 5/27. They can begin a 30 day rehab assignment anytime before being activated from the 60 day IL. 
 

4. DFA O’Hearn. 
 

5. DFA an arm. Gilaspie, Zimmerman, Vespi. 

Tate is already rehabbing so they are not going to put him on 60 day dl as he could be up by next weekend.  

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, bpilktree said:

Tate is already rehabbing so they are not going to put him on 60 day dl as he could be up by next weekend.  

Good catch. I didn’t realize that. Well 60 daying Givens is still an option. 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

This.

Other than expediency, and with Westburg not on the 40 man prettyd much excludes him, Elias has been clear: He will call up prospects when he thinks they are ready to stay permanently in MLB.

He's not going to call guys up to "see what they can do" or to gain a platoon advantage for a game or two.

So when Elias called up Hall for a start last season it was because he thought he was ready to stay permanently in MLB?

Or maybe Elias sometimes does things that go against what he says?

Edited April 27, 2023 by Can_of_corn
typo

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

So when Elias called up Hall for a start last season it was because he thought he was ready to stay permanently in MLB?

Or maybe Elias sometimes does things that go against what he says?

I think they think he's ready for a bullpen role in the major leagues.  But he's getting a final chance to sieze a larger role.

They may call up Westburg tomorrow.  But if they do, I can guarantee it won't be to gain a platoon advantage for a day or two.

[interloper]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sure we could see Westburg…if we get MiLB.tv.   

I don’t think a call-up decision will be based on whether the pitchers we are facing for a couple of days are LHP or RHP.   It’s a long term decision.  
 

Well, they did option Stowers before facing the string of LHP. It's definitely not the same scenario I propose here, but it's kind of similar. In the end you are probably right, but if long-term they want Westburg on the roster over Vavra, and anticipate more lefty bats like Cowser coming up, they could make that swap now and gain a small splits advantage. And there's nothing saying he can't stick. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by interloper

[Frobby]

25 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I commend the enthusiasm that some of you have regarding certain prospects. I would just like to offer a realistic bar about expectations of performance regarding guys making the jump from AAA. Almost all of them (even the best/most talented prospects) struggle out of the game (first 20-40ish games) just like our most talented prospect Gunnar, Adley, and Grayson have done.

What makes Westburg different? Is there any realistic expectation that he could in any way come up to the bigs right now and give us the kind of production that Hays has this season?

No, but the OP suggests Westburg replacing Vavra, not Hays.  And Vavra’s .231/.310/.231 is not a high bar.

Moreover, while many new players struggle out of the gate, not all do.  Sometimes they come out red hot.  Steven Kwan hit .354/.459/.500 last March/April.  The odds are more in favor of the player struggling, but it’s not a given, and like I said, Vavra’s production isn’t a high bar.  

Anyway, I’m just being devil’s advocate here.  I’m not expecting to see Westburg this soon.  
 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I think they think he's ready for a bullpen role in the major leagues.  But he's getting a final chance to sieze a larger role.

They may call up Westburg tomorrow.  But if they do, I can guarantee it won't be to gain a platoon advantage for a day or two.

When he was called up for one start last season, and sent right back down, it was because they thought he was ready to permanently stay in the majors?

You really think that?

Or, does Elias' actions sometimes not match his words?

[Bemorewins]

16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are you sure extrapolate is the word you wanted to use there?

No. Should have read extrapolate. That’s what happens when I type from my phone. The autocorrect didn’t work well there…lol

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Well, they did option Stowers before facing the string of LHP. It's definitely not the same scenario I propose here, but it's kind of similar. In the end you are probably right, but if long-term they want Westburg on the roster over Vavra, and anticipate more lefty bats like Cowser coming up, they could make that swap now and gain a small splits advantage. 

Actually, I do like the idea, even though I’m not expecting it, for a couple of reasons:

1.  Westburg is flat out better than Vavra.  He was ranked more highly in the minors the last couple of years, he has way more power, and he’s a better defender IMO.

2.  For me, Vavra is highly redundant of Frazier.  They’re both lefties, they both play 2B and OF, they’re both contact hitters with little power.   For me, Westburg complements the other players better than Vavra does, plus he’s just plain better.   

If we do bring up Westburg for Vavra at some point, I’d hope we would reallocate the playing time so that Westburg would play more often than Vavra did and Frazier would play less.  
 

[Bemorewins]

18 minutes ago, interloper said:

You're making more of a case than is needed here. I'm simply saying you gain a small tactical advantage by replacing a lefty on your bench with a righty for this series in particular. Even if Westburg goes right back down, he's a better option than Vavra just on the platoon odds. And again, you're a RH bat short with Hays out.

Overall I doubt it actually happens, but it's hard to imagine a more logical time to have him debut.

I don’t necessarily disagree from the small advantage that would be gained during this series. But I don’t agree with using top 100 prospects in that manner especially not in April against DET.

When/if he comes up, I want there to be a plan for him to contribute to the Orioles for the rest of the season. Not to be yanked back down after a weekend.

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

When he was called up for one start last season, and sent right back down, it was because they thought he was ready to permanently stay in the majors?

You really think that?

Or, does Elias' actions sometimes not match his words?

Yes.  I think they believe he is now ready for a major league bullpen role, and there was one available to him last season.

I think he is being given a chance to develop as a starter, and if they decide they that isn't happening, he will be given another bp role when one is available.

[Mooreisbetter27]

20 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Good catch. I didn’t realize that. Well 60 daying Givens is still an option. 

Givens just started throwing bullpens in Bowie I believe.  Think Hyde said he could start rehab next week.  

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So when Elias called up Hall for a start last season it was because he thought he was ready to stay permanently in MLB?

Or maybe Elias sometimes does things that go against what he says?

Two things:

1.  I think pitchers are a little different than hitters.  They get yo-yoed around more often to plug holes when a bullpen is tired or a spot start os needed.  

2.  I don’t think anything Elias says about his general preferences about how and when to deploy players is going to be followed 100% of the time.  I don’t think the way Hall was used was consistent with what Elias says his preference is, but the particular circumstances of the moment dictated the decision.  Happens sometimes.  As Ralph Waldo Emerson said: “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”
 

[Bemorewins]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No, but the OP suggests Westburg replacing Vavra, not Hays.  And Vavra’s .231/.310/.231 is not a high bar.

Moreover, while many new players struggle out of the gate, not all do.  Sometimes they come out red hot.  Steven Kwan hit .354/.459/.500 last March/April.  The odds are more in favor of the player struggling, but it’s not a given, and like I said, Vavra’s production isn’t a high bar.  

Anyway, I’m just being devil’s advocate here.  I’m not expecting to see Westburg this soon.  
 

If we are getting rid of Varva (or sending him back down if he had options) which I want like yesterday! I just don’t think he’s that good. His only above average skill appears to be swing decisions/plate discipline, but when he does swing it rarely does any damage. Kind of like Frazier, but not even as good.

In that case, I would want Cowser up since he is the guy to take the regular ABs and play the outfield in a manner that allows us to get a better alignment with Santander being primary DH.