Motivated Sellers

[MCO'sFan]

While starting pitcher is the most glaring need. I am not sold on Hays being solid for the entire year. I think we could upgrade at a few positions. First Base, Second Base and Left Field could all be upgraded depending on the asking price. I don't think it would be wise to bring up too many more prospects who almost always struggle. I am a big Westburg fan and wanted him to take over 2nd from the start but, I am willing to wait. I am not as worried about guys being backed up in AAA. The system has been so bad for so long that we have forgotten what it looks like when you have such depth. I think of the Dodgers and how they have had guys stock piled in AAA for several years now who have had to wait their turn. Westburg and Cowser aren't even on the 40 man yet. In fact, none of our top 30 position prospects still in the minors are even on the 40 man. Even Ortiz who is currently up has two options remaining after this year. I know some guys are getting close to prime but, there is not a need to trade them or lose them yet. 

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Cleveland could be sellers.  Beyond JoRam, their hitting has been rough.  Josh Naylor has picked it up lately and Kwan is getting on base.  But yikes...  They have some interesting SPs:  Bieber, Quantrill, and Civale likely trade chips.  I could see Civale even if the crowd wants Bieber.  I'd be asking about Bibee or Allen or Gavin Williams.

Toronto could be sellers.  Gausman reunion?  About $20m/yr and locked in through 2026 I believe.  

I would be all over Bieber if he were to somehow be available. He still has a year left after this, so in theory he could help us for 2 postseasons. I doubt that they would trade him though as they are still "in it" and will likely be so for the rest of the season given how weak their division is.

Toronto I don't see them selling at all, unless they fall off of a cliff. I'm not sure if you have been to the Rodgers Center on the city of Toronto. But I can't see them selling in that market. They have big crowds consistently, a nice sized payroll, a huge city, and have worked really hard to build the community's interest in the team and engage/grow their fanbase.

[btdart20]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I would be all over Bieber if he were to somehow be available. He still has a year left after this, so in theory he could help us for 2 postseasons. I doubt that they would trade him though as they are still "in it" and will likely be so for the rest of the season given how weak their division is.

Toronto I don't see them selling at all, unless they fall off of a cliff. I'm not sure if you have been to the Rodgers Center on the city of Toronto. But I can't see them selling in that market. They have big crowds consistently, a nice sized payroll, a huge city, and have worked really hard to build the community's interest in the team and engage/grow their fanbase.

This back-and-forth is why it's too early to speculate.  Both teams have some ground to cover (and a lot of time to do it in).

As a cost-conscience team, IMHO Cleveland would be wise to shop Bieber if they are out of it.  

As an org with a weaker pipeline (#19 by FG, #20 by MLB.com), IMO Toronto doesn't seem have the answer to the divisional challenges in-house currently.  They are currently 7th in total payroll.  How much dry powder do they have to get more talent through FA?  (To clarify the context:  the buying/selling isn't about selling the team, but MLB talent.)

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

This back-and-forth is why it's too early to speculate.  Both teams have some ground to cover (and a lot of time to do it in).

As a cost-conscience team, IMHO Cleveland would be wise to shop Bieber if they are out of it.  

As an org with a weaker pipeline (#19 by FG, #20 by MLB.com), IMO Toronto doesn't seem have the answer to the divisional challenges in-house currently.  They are currently 7th in total payroll.  How much dry powder do they have to get more talent through FA?  (To clarify the context:  the buying/selling isn't about selling the team, but MLB talent.)

You are right in that there is so much more season to play before we even get to the deadline.

Maybe what you say about CLE and Bieber is correct, as an O's fan I hope so. But I just don't see the Twins or any other team running away with the Central.

As far as Toronto goes, I don't see them becoming sellers in that market. They play in a huge city and they are the only game in country. I don't think their fanbase/community would react well to a rebuild. In those kind of markets, you can't really afford to not be relevant because there is so much other stuff to do. And once people, stop paying attention, good luck with trying to get them reengaged. They are not out of Wildcard contention by any means and have plenty of time to 'right the ship'. 

[btdart20]

46 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

You are right in that there is so much more season to play before we even get to the deadline.

Maybe what you say about CLE and Bieber is correct, as an O's fan I hope so. But I just don't see the Twins or any other team running away with the Central.

As far as Toronto goes, I don't see them becoming sellers in that market. They play in a huge city and they are the only game in country. I don't think their fanbase/community would react well to a rebuild. In those kind of markets, you can't really afford to not be relevant because there is so much other stuff to do. And once people, stop paying attention, good luck with trying to get them reengaged. They are not out of Wildcard contention by any means and have plenty of time to 'right the ship'. 

FWIW, I think the Twins are legit IF the pitching stays healthy.  Ryan and Gray are a solid 1-2.

Gotcha, I misunderstood your point about Toronto previously.  They did trade away Stroman in 2019 after an All-Star game appearance as part of a quasi-rebuild.  And this past off-season they traded away Teoscar Hernandez (#4-5 hitter) for an RP (Swanson) and an A+ lottery ticket.  Trading Gausman would be a tough pill to swallow.  I'm not sure they'd do it either.  TBD...

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, btdart20 said:

FWIW, I think the Twins are legit IF the pitching stays healthy.  Ryan and Gray are a solid 1-2.

Gotcha, I misunderstood your point about Toronto previously.  They did trade away Stroman in 2019 after an All-Star game appearance as part of a quasi-rebuild.  And this past off-season they traded away Teoscar Hernandez (#4-5 hitter) for an RP (Swanson) and an A+ lottery ticket.  Trading Gausman would be a tough pill to swallow.  I'm not sure they'd do it either.  TBD...

Don't forget about Pablo Lopez either! Yes they have a nice set of starting pitchers, which is why I feel that we need more/better. Because even to get past a team like them, which assuredly will be the weakest of the field in the AL, you need good/very good starting pitching. Over the long haul of the season, our depth is a tremendous asset and it helps us win a lot of games, but in the postseason you need high end talent. JMO

Yes, the Blue Jays did make the trades that you mentioned. But trading Gausman would be on a different level IMO. He is an ace/true #1 type pitcher and there aren't that many like that in the game. If they moved him then they would have to begin a deconstruction of some sort because there is no way to replace what he gives them.

IMO - The rest of their roster is ready to win and they have young stars in Bichette, Guerrero Jr. and Manoah. They have just underperformed up until this point. I don't see them being the type of team/roster or in the type of market where rebuilding is an option.