Orioles calling up Westburg.

[deward]

13 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

He already stated from the outset that he wanted to be in the big leagues in 2 years AND Boras is his agent. He's going to want to get up here as soon as possible so that he can get to FA. Saying that he won't be mad if he is held back unnecessarily is probably a stretch at best.

They can get the extra pick if he comes up next year, say early May and wins Rookie of the Year. The Reds have a kid right now who did not start the season in the Majors but will definitely be in the running with Carroll for National League Rookie of the Year.

He would have to be on the OD roster to get the pick. That's why preserving his rookie eligibility for 2025 could be important. I also think early May is too aggressive. Given that he has cooled off in Aberdeen, I don't see Holliday making it past AA this year.

[baltfan]

32 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

He already stated from the outset that he wanted to be in the big leagues in 2 years AND Boras is his agent. He's going to want to get up here as soon as possible so that he can get to FA. Saying that he won't be mad if he is held back unnecessarily is probably a stretch at best.

They can get the extra pick if he comes up next year, say early May and wins Rookie of the Year. The Reds have a kid right now who did not start the season in the Majors but will definitely be in the running with Carroll for National League Rookie of the Year.

No chance Elly supplants Carroll.  He could finish second, but very doubtful.  If they brought him up when they brough Gunnar up that would be consistent with his goals.  He would have some time at AA this year and then 2/3 year in AAA.  Not sure how he could be upset about that.  

And then, like I said, if he is in the top 2 in ROY in 2025 he gets the year back that he would have gotten if called up earlier in 2024.  He is 19 right now and would be in the majors at the age of 20. 

[Bemorewins]

25 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

No. They can't get a draft pick if he comes up in May.

Even if he finishes Rookie of the Year? My understanding was that the draft compensation went to the team who had the player chosen as Rookie of the Year. That is incorrect?

[Bemorewins]

22 minutes ago, deward said:

He would have to be on the OD roster to get the pick. That's why preserving his rookie eligibility for 2025 could be important. I also think early May is too aggressive. Given that he has cooled off in Aberdeen, I don't see Holliday making it past AA this year.

You do understand the run/offensive environment at Aberdeen right? If not, I suggest that you look up how ALL of our top prospects have done there. He best them all. When you say "cooled off" I assume that you didn't expect that he would go .400/.500/1.100 for a season did you? That would be like better than Babe Ruth or juiced up BB at their absolute peaks. No prospect should carry that as the standard for their success.

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, baltfan said:

No chance Elly supplants Carroll.  He could finish second, but very doubtful.  If they brought him up when they brough Gunnar up that would be consistent with his goals.  He would have some time at AA this year and then 2/3 year in AAA.  Not sure how he could be upset about that.  

And then, like I said, if he is in the top 2 in ROY in 2025 he gets the year back that he would have gotten if called up earlier in 2024.  He is 19 right now and would be in the majors at the age of 20. 

I hear you on the first point De La Cruz. But I don't have a crystal ball at my disposal or a time machine, so I try not to speak in definitive terms when it comes to what will happen in the future.

As far as Holliday goes, as I stated previously, I accept that the O's could keep him down extra time and delay his promotion in order to game the system. That's their right and their choice. I just don't think that it would be wise. And certainly, not just to make a temporary place for Joey Ortiz.

As I stated earlier, I believe that Jackson Holliday at this very moment (at age 19) is a better offensive player than either Jorge Mateo or Joey Ortiz (who are both much older than him and likely in part of their prime years).

[deward]

15 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

You do understand the run/offensive environment at Aberdeen right? If not, I suggest that you look up how ALL of our top prospects have done there. He best them all. When you say "cooled off" I assume that you didn't expect that he would go .400/.500/1.100 for a season did you? That would be like better than Babe Ruth or juiced up BB at their absolute peaks. No prospect should carry that as the standard for their success.

He's hitting .227 in the month of June, with a .723 OPS that is only being boosted up that high because he's still drawing walks. That's not Aberdeen park effects, that's a slump. Which is fine, he's going to have those, but he's not going to rocket through the system and be up in early 2024 unless he kept hitting like juiced up Barry Bonds. Not with the way that Elias tends to slow-roll prospects. He'll be fine, but he's not leaving Aberdeen until he starts hitting again.

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, deward said:

He's hitting .227 in the month of June, with a .723 OPS that is only being boosted up that high because he's still drawing walks. That's not Aberdeen park effects, that's a slump. Which is fine, he's going to have those, but he's not going to rocket through the system and be up in early 2024 unless he kept hitting like juiced up Barry Bonds. Not with the way that Elias tends to slow-roll prospects. He'll be fine, but he's not leaving Aberdeen until he starts hitting again.

I'm pretty confident that he will be promoted after the Futures game.

Have you checked out what some of our other top prospects where hitting at Aberdeen when they got promoted?

Nobody was going to continue to hit like "juiced up Barry Bonds" for a season. That was never realistic. The walks really matter because it shows you how deserving and elite the swing decisions/plate discipline is. 

I'm pretty confident that you will see an uptick in the offense when he arrives in Bowie.

Lastly, it would probably be best for us to continue this discussion in the Jackson Holliday thread and not in the Jordan Westburg one.

[OriolesMagic83]

It will be interesting to see if Westburg gets another start vs a RHP.  I assume Frazier and Mateo will continue to get regular starts.

[clapdiddy]

1 minute ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

It will be interesting to see if Westburg gets another start vs a RHP.  I assume Frazier and Mateo will continue to get regular starts.

This wouldn't make any sense since he raked RHP at a better rate than LHP.   I can see Frazier back in the lineup with Westburg playing 3B or SS with Gunnar handling the other position.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

As far as Holliday goes, as I stated previously, I accept that the O's could keep him down extra time and delay his promotion in order to game the system. That's their right and their choice. I just don't think that it would be wise. And certainly, not just to make a temporary place for Joey Ortiz.

It is the opposite, i.e. use Joey Ortiz as long or short as needed to allow Holliday to develop according to whatever schedule helps the team the most. 

[baltfan]

If basically the only guy that got any hits last night doesn't play tonight, there is a problem with management.  It isn't like Westburg doesn't have reverse splits anyway.  

[Aristotelian]

30 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

This wouldn't make any sense since he raked RHP at a better rate than LHP.   I can see Frazier back in the lineup with Westburg playing 3B or SS with Gunnar handling the other position.

So you would rather have Frazier at 2B than Urias at 3B? I'd like to see something like Gunnar SS/Westburg 2B/Urias 3B for the next stretch, with Frazier getting regular (but not majority) starts at 2B and Mateo getting some starts at SS vs LHP. 

[clapdiddy]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

So you would rather have Frazier at 2B than Urias at 3B? I'd like to see something like Gunnar SS/Westburg 2B/Urias 3B for the next stretch, with Frazier getting regular (but not majority) starts at 2B and Mateo getting some starts at SS vs LHP. 

I'd be down with this.  That would be a very good fielding defense.   I just don't see them taking Frazier out of the lineup versus righties (yet). 

[24fps]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

So you would rather have Frazier at 2B than Urias at 3B? I'd like to see something like Gunnar SS/Westburg 2B/Urias 3B for the next stretch, with Frazier getting regular (but not majority) starts at 2B and Mateo getting some starts at SS vs LHP. 

I think last night's use of Frazier was perfect - late inning pinch hitter against RHP when the game already looked out of reach.

[Number5]

1 minute ago, 24fps said:

when the game already looked out of reach.

We were down 2-1.  Out of reach?