Can we all agree on one thing?

[Sanity Check]

Calling up Westburg wasn't the magic pill that was going to ignite the offense, and not having him on the team isn't the reason we struggle to score runs.

We're even losing games with Henderson at short, Westburg at third and Mateo on the bench.  So, it must be Frazier's fault. (not serious here).

And I'm not sure Cowser will come up and set the world on fire immediately, but I would love it if he did.

And don't get me wrong.....I AM a huge Jordan Westburg fan and I haven't looked at the stats, but he's probably been one of our better hitters the past 4 games where we scored 1,7,1 and 0.

It's great to see the young guys playing, and if playing them "plays us out of" a postseason appearance, I'd be good with it because they will then know how hard they need to work to get us to the next level.

These are my sanity checks as we begin July....

[maybenxtyr]

9 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Calling up Westburg wasn't the magic pill that was going to ignite the offense, and not having him on the team isn't the reason we struggle to score runs.

We're even losing games with Henderson at short, Westburg at third and Mateo on the bench.  So, it must be Frazier's fault. (not serious here).

And I'm not sure Cowser will come up and set the world on fire immediately, but I would love it if he did.

And don't get me wrong.....I AM a huge Jordan Westburg fan and I haven't looked at the stats, but he's probably been one of our better hitters the past 4 games where we scored 1,7,1 and 0.

It's great to see the young guys playing, and if playing them "plays us out of" a postseason appearance, I'd be good with it because they will then know how hard they need to work to get us to the next level.

These are my sanity checks as we begin July....

I don't think anyone expected one player to change the fortune of the team overnight. Unfortunately having everyone cool off at the same time makes it hard to score runs. As I said in another thread, it was the 3rx game of the Twins series that set off a 10 game winning streak.

[banks703]

It was mentioned on one of the broadcasts this week how important locker room ‘cohesion’ is to the Orioles. Growing up an athlete and having a brief stint in the sport as a job after my time in school, I can certainly echo that the business side/management of pro baseball is what makes it so vastly different than recreational/amateur. Obviously the talent and competition levels are far superior in pro ball as well.  How much more locker room chemistry matters to the O’s, I can’t say but I suspect not more than any other team. 
 

With team chemistry in mind, I don’t think that JW was the immediate fix to the offense and I’m not sure that anyone posted as much on this board. 
 

What I will reiterate what I posted last night is that I personally feel that management missed opportunities to promote JW and Cowser before an ignition to the offense was needed. I would even suggest that their yo-yoing of Joey Ortiz during two months of Jorge being (one of if not) the worst offensive player in baseball had as much to do with their current offensive struggles. Simply put, I feel that they were too slow to react to doing ANYTHING to improve the team and that’s probably because they were winning. 
 

We’re on the precipice of a five game skid and Austin Hays just left the game. If he is going to miss any time at all they damn sure better promote Cowser or we have to really question what the real goal for 2023 is for the management of this team. 

[Jagwar]

15 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

I don't think anyone expected one player to change the fortune of the team overnight. Unfortunately having everyone cool off at the same time makes it hard to score runs. As I said in another thread, it was the 3rx game of the Twins series that set off a 10 game winning streak.

I don't know... seems like a bunch of folks do just that. For Westburg and Cowser. 

[forphase1]

24 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

I don't think anyone expected one player to change the fortune of the team overnight. Unfortunately having everyone cool off at the same time makes it hard to score runs. As I said in another thread, it was the 3rx game of the Twins series that set off a 10 game winning streak.

Exactly.   Westburg over Mateo and/or Frazier makes us better.   That's all we wanted,  hoped for or expected.  Unfortunately pretty much all of the lineup has gone cold,  so the positive impact of Westburg hasn't resulted in more wins at this point.   It's baseball... one player rarely makes a huge difference, especially in just a sss.  I don't think anyone was calling him a savior of the offense, just that he'd be better than Mateo and Frazier.

[Sanity Check]

22 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I don't know... seems like a bunch of folks do just that. For Westburg and Cowser. 

Thank you....so I'm not the only one to see several on here question Elias's willingness to "win" and "make the team better" now by not promoting guys, and I'm just saying that promoting those guys, and benching Mateo (for example) doesn't necessarily equate to wins.  It was almost a forgone conclusion that we would be "better", but the results thus far aren't supportive of that.  Personally, I didn't think the promotions would mean that much to wins and losses, but it sure made a lot of people happier.

[Brooks The Great]

I don't really agree with anything stated in the OP.

Elias waited too long to bring up Westburg and Cowser, and Ortiz should have gotten more playing time up until this point and should still replace Mateo as the everyday shortstop. It doesn't look like it now, but this team has all the pieces to be an elite offense when you consider Cowser, Kjerstad, and Ortiz will each be promoted at some point later this season. Elias has simply delayed making the correct moves in favor of giving more leash to scrubs like Frazier, Mateo, Hicks, and O'Hearn (McKenna also shouldn't be on the team but he doesn't play very much).

[Sanity Check]

18 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

I don't really agree with anything stated in the OP.

Elias waited too long to bring up Westburg and Cowser, and Ortiz should have gotten more playing time up until this point and should still replace Mateo as the everyday shortstop. It doesn't look like it now, but this team has all the pieces to be an elite offense when you consider Cowser, Kjerstad, and Ortiz will each be promoted at some point later this season. Elias has simply delayed making the correct moves in favor of giving more leash to scrubs like Frazier, Mateo, Hicks, and O'Hearn (McKenna also shouldn't be on the team but he doesn't play very much).

It's okay to disagree.   Somehow, you think those other guys you mention won't struggle the same way Henderson ad Adley have?  I don't think you're being realistic in your assumptions, and I base that on how other promotions have performed.  There's no way to actually KNOW if Elias waited too long or not.

I do agree with you that Ortiz should have gotten some continuity in starting games so he could settle in...again, assuming that he would ever settle in.  We have know way of knowing just how much Ortiz's AAA numbers would have translated to MLB, but his at bats did not look as dominant as I saw him in Norfolk. so there is a difference.  But yes, more regular at bats would have been more telling for us.

Are you sure you can't agree with anything in the OP?  Would you not be okay promoting the AAA stars, even if it meant we didn't do well enough down the stretch to get into the playoffs?  If you don't agree with that, then we must keep them down there, right??

[owknows]

25 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Thank you....so I'm not the only one to see several on here question Elias's willingness to "win" and "make the team better" now by not promoting guys, and I'm just saying that promoting those guys, and benching Mateo (for example) doesn't necessarily equate to wins.  It was almost a forgone conclusion that we would be "better", but the results thus far aren't supportive of that.  Personally, I didn't think the promotions would mean that much to wins and losses, but it sure made a lot of people happier.

Honestly... this sounds like a bunch of self-indulgent preening with no real basis in fact.

Haven't seen suggestions that Elias isn't interested in winning.

What I have seen, is a legitimate crticism that he sticks with poor to mediocre veterans too long, at the expense of developing players who should be with the big club. People have been clamoring for Westburg and Ortiz for awhile. Quite rationally.

That's largely because Frazier and Mateo are journeymen ball players, and particularly right now, SUCK with the bat in their hands. They have made the team worse.

Westburg has entered the lineup and performed extremely well. The fact that the team has not performed extremely well over that stretch has nothing to do with Westburg or his performance.

So in short.. nothing about your OP is supported by reality.

 

 

 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, owknows said:

 

So in short.. nothing about your OP is supported by reality.

 

 

 

Which is ironic considering the screen name.

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

It's okay to disagree.   Somehow, you think those other guys you mention won't struggle the same way Henderson ad Adley have?  I don't think you're being realistic in your assumptions, and I base that on how other promotions have performed.  There's no way to actually KNOW if Elias waited too long or not.

 

Do you really think it doesn't occur to the posters here, that players graduating from AAA to the majors might have a little adjustment time?

 

And even with that adjustment... Westburg has an OPS+ of 117

Compared to Frazier's 91 and Mateo's 72

 

This move was long overdue.

 

[Sanity Check]

22 minutes ago, owknows said:

Honestly... this sounds like a bunch of self-indulgent preening with no real basis in fact.

Haven't seen suggestions that Elias isn't interested in winning.

What I have seen, is a legitimate crticism that he sticks with poor to mediocre veterans too long, at the expense of developing players who should be with the big club. People have been clamoring for Westburg and Ortiz for awhile. Quite rationally.

That's largely because Frazier and Mateo are journeymen ball players, and particularly right now, SUCK with the bat in their hands. They have made the team worse.

Westburg has entered the lineup and performed extremely well. The fact that the team has not performed extremely well over that stretch has nothing to do with Westburg or his performance.

So in short.. nothing about your OP is supported by reality.

 

 

 

I guess we see what we want to see.  I acknowledged that Westburg has, in fact, been one of the better hitters since he came up.  That's supported in reality, or no??

I have seen people suggesting that Elias must not be interested in winning because he is carrying what many feel are inferior players and not promoting our best prospects now, and how much better we would be with the prospects on the team now.  If you haven't seen that, then we must be reading different threads.  I can't be the only one who has seen that....

[Sanity Check]

22 minutes ago, owknows said:

Do you really think it doesn't occur to the posters here, that players graduating from AAA to the majors might have a little adjustment time?

 

And even with that adjustment... Westburg has an OPS+ of 117

Compared to Frazier's 91 and Mateo's 72

 

This move was long overdue.

 

I completely agree with the move to bring Westburg up.  I disagree with those who suggest that because those guys are raking in Norfolk, they will come up and immediately deliver better results. 

I don't disagree with having the best guys on the roster, as long as they can get consistent playing time.

[Bemorewins]

I can understand posters/fans wanting to see Cowser and Kjerstad. But lumping them in with Ortiz? I don't understand that at all. The other two are top of the draft first round picks expected to be franchise cornerstone/main staple type players. Ortiz, at best he is a temporary place holder until Jackson Holliday displaces him. I am not sure if Ortiz gives us anymore of a net positive difference than just playing Gunnar at SS and Urias at 3B. What is clear is that some of you are higher on Ortiz than the O's appear to be.

[Billy F-Face3]

Alot of dunning kruger effect happening all over this thread. That's why the answer is no, you cannot get everyone to agree on one thing.