Orioles biggest problem

[Bemorewins]

22 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yankee fans still sometimes talk about the Alvaro Espinoza years like they were this epic wandering in the wilderness, bleak, dark era that deeply scarred everyone from Newark to Albany for life. That was a four-year period where they averaged 74 wins, followed by making the playoffs like 19 times in 24 years including winning four Series in five years.

In the last 30 years, they have MISSED the playoffs 4 times. There is NO WAY that New York would tolerate the type of tank that Elias oversaw here.

[LookinUp]

I think it's funny and ironic that an OP asking an obvious open question is getting shouted down by people who claim that there's always 20% of people that are unhappy.

The ones shouting down the obvious question are the 20%, IMO. 

If you don't have this question about Elias, you're not paying attention. It doesn't mean there's a problem. It doesn't mean you're a jerk for asking it. It's just that muh we're in first place so you can't even wonder how/if ownership is doing what it takes to potentially build a dynasty.

What is so wrong with asking the damn question people? 

And by the way, let's say Angelos extends a couple of these young guys and Elias for the foreseeable future, I'd say he goes down as an all time great owner (unlike his father). It's right there for him to do, and the revenue should be increasing in a way that just might allow it. It would be awesome. Let's hope.

[TopGunnar]

I don’t see Elias leaving until he sees this rebuild through and wins a Championship. Which might be this year 

[DrungoHazewood]

10 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

In the last 30 years, they have MISSED the playoffs 4 times. There is NO WAY that New York would tolerate the type of tank that Elias oversaw here.

What does that even mean, "tolerate"? What are they going to do? Yell? Write some tersely worded emails to Stenbrenner, Jr? Applaud lustily when the New York Post puts up some nasty headlines? 

I'll tell you what they'd do: they'd quit going to the games until they started winning again. Like pretty much every other team in sports except the Cubs.

[DrungoHazewood]

9 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

I don’t see Elias leaving until he sees this rebuild through and wins a Championship. Which might be this year 

Just remember that winning a Championship is heavily influenced by luck. On the first day of the playoffs the best team in baseball has more than an 80% chance of going home unhappy. The only way to substantially increase your odds of winning the Series is to be good for a long time and eventually they'll probably pull your name out of the hat.

[owknows]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

So, this is definitely an issue but good organizations can withstand major losses if they are structured properly and promote from within.

The issue with that isn’t Elias leaving…it’s Angelos staying. 
 

The biggest issue for this organization is and always be ownership until that family sells.

This view fails of course, to consider that it was Angelos who brought Elias here in the first place.

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, owknows said:

This view fails of course, to consider that it was Angelos who brought Elias here in the first place.

No it doesn’t. One great decision doesn’t overrule complete ineptitude in many other areas.

[Bemorewins]

20 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

What does that even mean, "tolerate"? What are they going to do? Yell? Write some tersely worded emails to Stenbrenner, Jr? Applaud lustily when the New York Post puts up some nasty headlines? 

I'll tell you what they'd do: they'd quit going to the games until they started winning again. Like pretty much every other team in sports except the Cubs.

Tolerate means, they won't support the team in the form of going to games, watching them on TV, or buying merch. There are too many entertainment alternatives in a city like New York that compete for the attention of occupants.

Plus, those fans (especially Yankees fans) are conditioned to winning and expect it as the baseline. They are not going to support years of epic, intentional losing. 

[Bemorewins]

I could see a team like the Cubs, who are a bigger spending team with a traditionally more patient fanbase maybe being interested in someone like Elias.

As far as some of the other bigger spending teams, I don't see what would be attractive to them regarding Elias' resume. Being able to totally deconstruct and then reconstruct an org from top to bottom.

New York (Mets and Yanks) are not going to be drawn to that, because they don't have fanbases/markets where what Elias has done will be palpable to their fanbase. Boston no. Pretty much same thing applies. Atlanta is good, so no interest there. San Diego is in win now mode. So again, no interest there based on anything Elias has one. That would be a no for Texas as well. No for Philly too. Maybe Anaheim if they cannot resign Ohtani?

[btdart20]

I think Elias will be here for the foreseeable future in a "devil you know" type contentment (in addition to seeing a project through to completion).

Everything Elias is saying (and yes it might be crafted for public sentiment) seems to say Angelos has been very supportive for whatever Elias has asked for.  What that specifically means is vague though.  At face value, it sounded like this past trade deadline Elias had the ok to go after a Verlander/Scherzer-type payroll acquisition (should Elias deem it appropriate).  Of course, there's a big gap between saying that and doing that...

[Bahama O's Fan]

Now, I'm not saying that Elias hasn't done a great job, but he had a few things going for him. First, he had ownership's backing and (to some extent) fans' understanding during 5 bad seasons until being truly competitive. Which fan base and ownership will be willing to withstand that. He basically had no expectations. It's like being the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Secondly, he had tanking ability, knowing he could get the #1 pick. This is no longer possible. He has hit on other picks of course, but picking early and tanking knowing you can get that pick certainly makes it easier, even if it means you underslot and save money for other picks. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 hours ago, Fan4Life said:

Would you root for the Nashville Orioles, just curious. 

Yeah, I would.  

I mean, I'm invested in Adley, Gunnar, Westburg, Cowser, Ortiz, Mayo, Bradish, Basallo, etc.  Where they play is really of no consequence to me.  It would suck to see Camden Yards empty...I'd still go to watch whatever team fills that stadium maybe once a summer because I'd want to show it to my kid, but other than that I really don't care.

 

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

Tolerate means, they won't support the team in the form of going to games, watching them on TV, or buying merch. 

Yankees merch, especially the hat, is bigger than baseball.  It's iconic and cultural.  People are still going to by Yankees hats no matter what place they're in.

 

[Moose Milligan]

In regards to WC's hyperventilating opening post, I'm not worried about Elias leaving anytime soon.  There's been no grumbling reported about him not getting along with Angelos, there's been no reporting of him trying to go to another team like DD did with Toronto. 

I'm not sure what the Orioles "biggest problem" is as this team currently sits in first place with the best record in the league.  If I had to say, I'm assuming it's the bullpen.

If Elias goes, he goes.  That doesn't mean this organization will start to crumble away.  This is hand wringing of the highest order and I will not participate.

[owknows]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No it doesn’t. One great decision doesn’t overrule complete ineptitude in many other areas.

He strikes me as tight with the money. Maybe a little disingenuous at times. But not particularly inept. His on field baseball contractual decisions require context to judge. And I don't think any one of us know enough about his or the team's finances to really offer an informed opinion. We can speculate. And many do.

I guess I'm a little less inclined to judge harshly, as I am of the opinion that the game has developed an unhealthy salary spiral that is pricing it out of reach for many. And I find the ability to field a winning team with a shoestring budget refreshing and somewhat admirable.

How inept can a team be run, if they're first in record and last in salary?

[Oriole1940]

2 hours ago, Fan4Life said:

Would you root for the Nashville Orioles, just curious. 

Of course, just as I rooted for the Baltimore Orioles after 1954.  There is no bird,  Nashville Oriole, but there are Baltimore Oriole  birds.