Is Flaherty injured or sick? Kremer starting tonight.

[Sports Guy]

https://x.com/masnroch/status/1694353464095109531?s=46&t=G3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA

Edited August 23, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

I’ll guess he got sick. He seemed fine last night.

[Frobby]

I guess @webbrick2010talked to Hyde. 

[waroriole]

Really not understanding why Showalter had to be part of this trade. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Really not understanding why Showalter had to be part of this trade. 

Because it doesn’t get done otherwise.

[waroriole]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Because it doesn’t get done otherwise.

Then maybe it didn’t need to get done. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Then maybe it didn’t need to get done. 

Yea it did. You don’t let some 11th round 19 y/o with 20 innings under his belt stop you from making that deal. 
 

I like the upside of Showalter but you can draft guys like him all the time and his chances of becoming anything are really really low.

[waroriole]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea it did. You don’t let some 11th round 19 y/o with 20 innings under his belt stop you from making that deal. 
 

I like the upside of Showalter but you can draft guys like him all the time and his chances of becoming anything are really really low.

You don’t give someone a big overslot bonus and then ship them off for a mediocre SP, two months from free agency. Especially if the results of those first 20 IP have been positive. It was a very puzzling inclusion. 

[Otter]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea it did. You don’t let some 11th round 19 y/o with 20 innings under his belt stop you from making that deal. 
 

I like the upside of Showalter but you can draft guys like him all the time and his chances of becoming anything are really really low.

The difference is we rarely draft guys like Showalter (high upside HS pitchers for overslot deals).  Just Showalter and Baumler; that's it.  Our system really needs high upside young arms, and we have very few.  Because of that we are forced to trade for pitching rentals like Flaherty and Fuji, but I don't like that 3 of the 4 prospects we traded are pitchers.  That just perpetuates the root problem of a lack of pitching prospects.  And yes I know that Rom and  Lucas aren't great prospects, but developing pitching is a war of attrition and you need quantity to overcome the inevitable injuries and starters converted to relievers.  I really wish we had traded Norby or Stowers instead of Showalter; they are higher rated than Showalter but our system can definitely absorb their loss much more easily than Showalter.

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, waroriole said:

You don’t give someone a big overslot bonus and then ship them off for a mediocre SP, two months from free agency. Especially if the results of those first 20 IP have been positive. It was a very puzzling inclusion. 

None of this makes sense to me but to each their own.  It was a great trade that you make 100 times out of 100 when you are in the situation the Os were in.

The only question about the trade is what else could they have done that may have been better but nothing that actually happened was better.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Otter said:

The difference is we rarely draft guys like Showalter (high upside HS pitchers for overslot deals).  Just Showalter and Baumler; that's it.  Our system really needs high upside young arms, and we have very few.  Because of that we are forced to trade for pitching rentals like Flaherty and Fuji, but I don't like that 3 of the 4 prospects we traded are pitchers.  That just perpetuates the root problem of a lack of pitching prospects.  And yes I know that Rom and  Lucas aren't great prospects, but developing pitching is a war of attrition and you need quantity to overcome the inevitable injuries and starters converted to relievers.  I really wish we had traded Norby or Stowers instead of Showalter; they are higher rated than Showalter but our system can definitely absorb their loss much more easily than Showalter.

Sure but that’s not what the Cards wanted. We likely don’t get the deal done without Showalter unless we are including far higher ceiling guys that were obviously off the table here. No real reason to talk about anything else.

And the Os just drafted a bunch of pitchers.

[Otter]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure but that’s not what the Cards wanted. We likely don’t get the deal done without Showalter unless we are including far higher ceiling guys that were obviously off the table here. No real reason to talk about anything else.

And the Os just drafted a bunch of pitchers.

How do you know what we offered or what the Cardinals asked for?

Yes, we did draft a bunch of pitchers which was great but it still doesn't balance out the inequity in our system right now.

[Malike]

4 minutes ago, Otter said:

How do you know what we offered or what the Cardinals asked for?

Yes, we did draft a bunch of pitchers which was great but it still doesn't balance out the inequity in our system right now.

Pretty sure we know what was offered and asked for in the actual trade details. We know who we got and we know who we sent to the Cards.

[waroriole]

32 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

None of this makes sense to me but to each their own.  It was a great trade that you make 100 times out of 100 when you are in the situation the Os were in.

The only question about the trade is what else could they have done that may have been better but nothing that actually happened was better.

I mean we don’t know what the Cards red line was, or what other teams were offering. But, the value we included felt a lot higher than what we got back. Even if a lottery ticket was traded for a known quantity. 
 

It just feels like the Norris/Hader trade. Or the guy we got for Davies. I think we’ll regret it. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by waroriole

[webbrick2010]

Well it's a trade you can only lose, because the O's would have made the playoffs without Flaherty, and he won't pitch in the playoffs (even if he somehow is on the roster).

It's just a matter of how bad you lose the trade when you look back in a couple of years.