Trade chips replaced in-house = Salary Relief

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I think the franchise is in very different places then/now. Those were much more veteran teams and the player development stunk. There is no way of knowing how things would have turned out if they had done things differently. May have been better, may have been worse.

Those teams were largely built by prudent trades, FA signings and a good farm system…same as this team. They did have a little more of a vet core than this one but you could argue that all that means is that those teams needed less than this team does because they didn’t need guys who “had been there before”.

 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Its a clear statement that the O's will not stand pat going into 2024.

So it’s a parody post. Ok

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Well, tbh, it's hard to nail down exactly what you're saying.

But you seem to be calling for them to do MORE than either what you expect them to do, or what others are expecting them to do.

I want them(and have been pretty clear about this btw) to add 1 and maybe 2 starters and likely add to the pen whether it’s by trade or cheap signings.  Hard to imagine a scenario where I want them to pursue anyone on the offensive side of things. 
 

Maybe something exists if they make multiple trades but I don’t see that scenario right now.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I want them to add 1 and maybe 2 starters and likely add to the pen whether it’s by trade or cheap signings.  Hard to imagine a scenario where I want them to pursue anyone on the offensive side of things. 
 

Maybe something exists if they make multiple trades but I don’t see that scenario right now.

I see little need, and less chance, they add two starters better than what they have now.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Pickles said:

I see little need, and less chance, they add two starters better than what they have now.

Well I think Means, GRod and Bradish are the clear locks.

No one else is a lock for me although Kremer probably is. But his peripherals and statcast numbers are pretty poor, so I would prefer to upgrade on him.

The likely number is 1 starter though, I do agree.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So it’s a parody post. Ok

A parody includes  exaggeration.  There is no exaggeration here.   Its a clear statement of fact.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, wildcard said:

A parody includes  exaggeration.  There is no exaggeration here.   It’s a clear statement of fact.

Those guys are already replaced by people already here.  It’s the definition of standing Pat. Just because they  are going, doesn’t mean the team did anything.  
 

Just stop.

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Those guys are already replaced by people already here.  It’s the definition of standing Pat. Just because they  are going, doesn’t mean the team did anything.  
 

Just stop.

They are not replaced yet.   But they probably will be.  Moving players from the minors to the majors is doing something.   Promoting Gunnar, GRod and Westburg is doing something to improve the team. Adding Ortiz and giving playing time to Hall, Cowser and Kjerstad will be improving the team.

Adding Holliday and McDermott sometime in 2024 will improve the team.

There is no standing pat here.

Edited August 28, 2023 by wildcard

[MCO'sFan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Those teams were largely built by prudent trades, FA signings and a good farm system…same as this team. They did have a little more of a vet core than this one but you could argue that all that means is that those teams needed less than this team does because they didn’t need guys who “had been there before”.

 

I would say that that team had a decent farm system. Nothing like today's and the PD is far better today.

I am certainly not saying that anyone who wants to add to the team is wrong. I am saying that no one knows the future and very sound decisions made during the offseason whether it is to go with outside additions or internal options are valid but there are risks to both. I prefer to mitigate those risks at this point by not taking on a large contract that flops or trade a way prospects that may be internal options over the next few years. If this approach proves wrong, it is much easier to change course than the other way around. Bad contracts suck and once you trade a prospect, he is gone. Plenty of teams "upgrade" on paper and it doesn't translate to the field.

I am articulating my thoughts and preferences. With the current roster and internal options, I would be inclined to make a few changes and replace primarily internally. 

[Aristotelian]

47 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So, you were in favor of what the Os did after 2012 and 2014?

I think all of us wanted to extend Manny. I would be pretty happy if we got a Gunnar extension and a bullpen arm. I think we are in a much different place than we were in 2014. Totally different team and set of assets. 

[MCO'sFan]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I want them(and have been pretty clear about this btw) to add 1 and maybe 2 starters and likely add to the pen whether it’s by trade or cheap signings.  Hard to imagine a scenario where I want them to pursue anyone on the offensive side of things. 
 

Maybe something exists if they make multiple trades but I don’t see that scenario right now.

We are not far off on this. I would like to push Wells to the pen where I think he belongs. If they can do it on a short term deal then great. But, I don't think that type of pitcher really moves the needle. For instance, does a guy like Gibson stay another year. I don't like the Gibson's of the world. So, in that case, I'd rather have Wells in the rotation. I would trade one of Hays/Santander and Mateo be strictly a bench player. O'Hearn, McKenna, Hicks, etc...  are all replaceable

Edited August 28, 2023 by MCO'sFan

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I think all of us wanted to extend Manny. I would be pretty happy if we got a Gunnar extension and a bullpen arm. I think we are in a much different place than we were in 2014. Totally different team and set of assets. 

Except that one guy that kept saying Manny couldn't hit a slider. 

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, wildcard said:

They are not replaced yet.   But they probably will be.  Moving players from the minors to the majors is doing something.   Promoting Gunnar, GRod and Westburg is doing something to improve the team. Adding Ortiz and giving playing time to Hall, Cowser and Kjerstad will be improving the team.

Adding Holliday and McDermott sometime in 2024 will improve the team.

There is no standing pat here.

Your 2024 OD roster, per what you have said, is largely the team that is here right now or guys that have already been on the team this year like Ortiz and Cowser.

That is doing nothing. Calling guys up at some point is doing something but you also have to have room for them(which you are not making because you aren’t making any moves) and those guys have to be healthy and performing which will likely be the case for Holliday but far from a certainty for someone like McDermott.

Your plan is to do nothing except rely 100% on what is here. That is doing nothing. That is sitting on your hands. There is zippy chance Elias will do that. He has yet to do that since he has been here. He didn’t do that when the team was tanking.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

We are not far off on this. I would like to push Wells to the pen where I think he belongs. If they can do it on a short term deal then great. But, I don't think that type of pitcher really moves the needle. For instance, does a guy like Gibson stay another year. I don't like the Gibson's of the world. So, in that case, I'd rather have Wells in the rotation. I would trade one of Hays/Santander and Mateo needs to go. O'Hearn, McKenna, Hicks, etc...  are all replaceable

No, you go get the best pitcher you can get on a 3 year deal (maybe you go 4 for the right guy but I would prefer not to) or you guy get a very good cost controlled guy and use your positional assets that you really need to start trading to get one.

I don’t care which you do but you really need to do one of them.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Sports Guy

[MCO'sFan]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, you go the best pitcher you can get on a 3 year deal (maybe you go 4 for the right guy but I would prefer not to) or you guy get a very good cost controlled guy and use your positional assets that you really need to start trading to get one.

I don’t care which you do but you really need to do one of them.

That is certainly a way to go. Maybe even the smart way to go.