2024 Opening Day Roster

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, now said:

Just chipping in here on Urias... his power outage combined with defensive lapses of late (not to mention younger competition in house) have me ready to move on after this season. Potential payoff heroics might even sweeten the trade value instead of appetite to retain him. 

I think Urias fits perfectly on next years team. 
 

A decision has to be made on Ortiz or Westburg, unless they just don’t carry much value around the league, which is unlikely.

Urias is a perfect back up IFer.  

[now]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I think Urias fits perfectly on next years team. 

A decision has to be made on Ortiz or Westburg, unless they just don’t carry much value around the league, which is unlikely.

Urias is a perfect back up IFer.  

Starter, no. Backup, you have a point. Much depends on relative trade value. It will be interesting to see how playoff performances (Westburg, Mateo, Urias) unfold and affect other teams' perception of value going fwd.

[Yossarian]

1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I wonder if Westburg is the main chip to upgrade the pitching staff this offseason.  Maybe Santander too as the OP noted.  If Westburg stays at 2B, where does Holliday play?  Westburg is probably a small upgrade over Urias at UIF, but is that small upgrade really worth it vs his trade value?  I say that as a Westburg fan. 

Westburg only really adds value if he can start extending those earning track fluid to home runs.   The rest of his skill set can be found without trouble.  

[Yossarian]

Just now, Yossarian said:

Westburg only really adds value if he can start extending those earning track fluid to home runs.   The rest of his skill set can be found without trouble.  

Warning track flyouts, that should say.

(My phone had other thoughts for what I typed)

[DirtyBird]

I could see Westburg getting a lot of OF reps in the off-season 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

The idea that you keep talking about 1 start is precisely the problem. And if you want to ignore Ks and missed bats, have at it’s an awful stance to take and is extremely short sighted, especially within the context of offering a long term deal to someone coming off major arm surgery.

You act like Elias/Hyde/Holt don't know Means when they have known him for 5 years.   They know his character.  They  have seen him at his best.  They have worked with him through his recovery.   And it looks like they will see him through this next week and in the playoffs.  

They have a strong basis to make a judgement on an extension this off season.  Whether to do it and how long they are willing to go.  Whether it's all guaranteed money or with some options and bonuses for starts.

Means says he wants to win a WS and he will probably not get a better chance to do that than being with the O's.   I don't see him wanting to go FA and I don't think the  O's want him too.  With that said a one year contract does not make much sense.   Two years cuts Means value short.   It probably has to be at least three years.   Maybe with option(s)  for more years.

Edited September 26, 2023 by wildcard

[foxfield]

The Orioles failed to close an extension with Manny after his injuries. It cost them dearly. While extending Means now would be a risk, he certainly cannot get the moon for one game. He also would be in a position of not being able to command top dollar. 
 

I don’t think it would be wise to offer a huge deal, but I could see a 2-3 yr deal this offseason being mutually beneficial. 
 

It would be one the Orioles could swallow if it turned bad. They certainly are not offering someone 200MM and 5 yrs. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I think Urias fits perfectly on next years team. 
 

A decision has to be made on Ortiz or Westburg, unless they just don’t carry much value around the league, which is unlikely.

Urias is a perfect back up IFer.  

While I can see why you say that.  Its not the only way this can go.

Gunnar, Westburg and Ortiz are players that could be inexpensive and with the team for 5 years.  They are good defensive players and they all will likely grow into productive offensive players.   3B requires great reflexes.   Ortiz and Gunnar both that great reflexes.  Gunnar has earned the right to play most of his games at SS.   Westburg as looked good at 2B.   

Holliday may not begin the season in the majors but he will push for that in ST.   He is probably a 2B.   And if he is sent down he will probably be back in a month or two.   That will move Westburg off 2B  or at least to share it when Holliday is promoted.  

So with those 4 players sharing time in the infield for most of 2024,  to begin the season Elias needs to make a choice between Mateo and Urias.   Right now I am thinking that Mateo can not only be the backup SS, an elite basestealer and pinch runner  but the O's may also want him to be the backup CF.   With  Hicks being the 4th OF, Mateo offers speed at the backup CF while they have time to teach him CF this off season and in ST.    

In this case there is no need to keep McKenna or Urias on the roster.   That makes Urias a GG trade chip.

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Yossarian said:

Westburg only really adds value if he can start extending those earning track fluid to home runs.   The rest of his skill set can be found without trouble.  

60 home runs and a .506 slugging percentage in 317 minor league games.  I’m fine with the low to mid 700’s OPS and plus 2B defense while we wait on the power.   

[forphase1]

2 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I wonder if Westburg is the main chip to upgrade the pitching staff this offseason.  Maybe Santander too as the OP noted.  If Westburg stays at 2B, where does Holliday play?  Westburg is probably a small upgrade over Urias at UIF, but is that small upgrade really worth it vs his trade value?  I say that as a Westburg fan. 

Simple.  Westburg 2nd, Holiday SS, Gunnar at 3rd.  Ortiz and Urias/Mateo as backups.  No Frazier or one of Uruas/Mateo on the roster.

[forphase1]

3 hours ago, yark14 said:

I'm trying to figure out who fills the Odor/Frazier "clubhouse veteran" roster spot, stealing AB's from prospects.

My money is on Brandon Crawford.

Hopefully we are past that point and don't sign anyone along those lines. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Yossarian said:

Westburg only really adds value if he can start extending those earning track fluid to home runs.   The rest of his skill set can be found without trouble.  

As a rookie, he’s been worth 1.2 rWAR, 1.0 fWAR in about 1/3 season worth of PA.  I’d say it’s not that easy to find that.  He’s a rookie, who’s likely to get better.   The power will show; he’s got solid pop.  

[Pickles]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Well I said Coulombe was no good because he hasnt been good for like 5 or 6 years and guys like that don’t usually just all of a sudden turn out to be good. Even you can understand that, at least when you aren’t completely lying about what I say.

And didn’t you say Mateo was good and an everyday player?  Oh yea you did and you did that despite most of the evidence telling you that’s a pretty bad opinion.

It’s clear you don’t seem to understand the issue I’m putting out there, so I’ll just sit back and watch you troll and misrepresent my comments, per your usual. 
 

Luckily, I’m sure Elias won’t be stupid and offer Means a contract that he shouldn’t, so I feel good about it not happening.

No you specifically said Coulombe was "no good" and cited his 5.6 K rate from 2022.  In 12 innings.  It had nothing to do with the "last 5 or 6 years" as Coulombe had been decent when he pitched in 2022 and 2021.  Now nobody thought he was going to do what he's done, but you immediately wrote him off because of his K rate.  You have reductionist thinking and it leads to bad analysis.

Regarding Mateo, I never said he was an everyday player; I said he deserved the opportunity to play every day going into this season, and in the halcyon days of April, I would have said he deserved to be the starting SS until he proved he wasn't.  Well, he proved he wasn't, and Elias and I apparently came to that decision pretty simultaneously.  I will confess I have continued to argue Mateo has a role on the roster, but I think that argument has only grown stronger over the last month or so.

This is the main problem with trying to interact with you here.  Whenever somebody points out something you said that has proven to be a bad take, you immediately accuse them of "lying," "trolling," or "misrepresenting."   Even when you're being directly quoted verbatim.  And then immediately proceed to misrepresent something that person has said.

The point I'm making here isn't to shine a light on you having a bad take believe it or not.  My point is that exploring extending Means is something a prudent team would be doing and dismissing it as "making no sense" is a myopic take, and likely to be a bad one.  That you cite his lowered K rate this year in a small sample size is what prompts the comparison to the exact same take you had on Coulombe, which was a bad one.

What's a contract he "shouldn't?"  Let's get some numbers here.  A 4/48 is what I proposed.  RZNJ thought it wouldn't be enough.

[Sports Guy]

44 minutes ago, wildcard said:

While I can see why you say that.  Its not the only way this can go.

Gunnar, Westburg and Ortiz are players that could be inexpensive and with the team for 5 years.  They are good defensive players and they all will likely grow into productive offensive players.   3B requires great reflexes.   Ortiz and Gunnar both that great reflexes.  Gunnar has earned the right to play most of his games at SS.   Westburg as looked good at 2B.   

Holliday may not begin the season in the majors but he will push for that in ST.   He is probably a 2B.   And if he is sent down he will probably be back in a month or two.   That will move Westburg off 2B  or at least to share it when Holliday is promoted.  

So with those 4 players sharing time in the infield for most of 2024,  to begin the season Elias needs to make a choice between Mateo and Urias.   Right now I am thinking that Mateo can not only be the backup SS, an elite basestealer and pinch runner  but the O's may also want him to be the backup CF.   With  Hicks being the 4th OF, Mateo offers speed at the backup CF while they have time to teach him CF this off season and in ST.    

In this case there is no need to keep McKenna or Urias on the roster.   That makes Urias a GG trade chip.

Westburg and Ortiz should carry more trade value than they would give us as a part time player.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Westburg and Ortiz should carry more trade value than they would give us as a part time player.

When Gunnar and Holliday are holding down two IF spots.  There third spot could be Westburg or Ortiz.   

Urias is will likely make 2 to 3M in arbitration.   Westburg and Ortiz make close to 730K each.