Can We Talk About Next Year Now?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

 

Really, Corn?  You’re king of pulling the SSS card. 
 

Are you going to make off-season decisions on 3 games?   
 

 

Naw, just thought it was worth a chuckle.

Was why I didn't add any context.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[RZNJ]

Just now, emmett16 said:

I mean, I get it.  It’s a message board and everyone can dream a little bit.  But, I just don’t understand grasping at pipe dreams that are a direct contradiction of the teams modus operandi.  
 

I also don’t know who we could legitimately target that would have a chance to start a playoff game over Bradish and GRod.  I think trying to go for a #3 (a Gibson upgrade) is likely what they will & should do.  My guess is that person comes via trade and that person is not on anyone’s radar.  

That’s definitely a possibility but assuming Means is healthy going forward they may want to leave a spot open and hope Hall takes it with Irvin as a safety net.  Getting an established #3 essentially relegates Hall to the pen or bumps Kremer.   We’ll see if they feel they still need a veteran who can add stability.   Past actions do point to adding an established ML starter.   

[emmett16]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Naw, just thought it was worth a chuckle.

You got me  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RZNJ said:

That’s definitely a possibility but assuming Means is healthy going forward they may want to leave a spot open and hope Hall takes it with Irvin as a safety net.  Getting an established #3 essentially relegates Hall to the pen or bumps Kremer.   We’ll see if they feel they still need a veteran who can add stability.   Past actions do point to adding an established ML starter.   

I would love to know how hurt Means was when they left him off the playoff roster.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, emmett16 said:

You got me  

It was a chuckle for me.  I was my sole audience.

[Frobby]

51 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Where did I say that the regular season was a disappointment? I believe that I said it was incredible. What I said was how the season ended was disappointing. You find it “odd” that I am disappointed that we got swept because our pitching wasn’t up to par and I believe that we should upgrade our roster? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. 

For me the tricky question is how much of our loss to Texas was not having top end talent, and how much was just the random timing of a baseball season.  I mean, the Dodgers just got swept, do they lack premium talent?

I can think back on several World Series winning teams where their most successful playoff pitchers were young guys who hadn’t yet fully established themselves as aces but eventually did.  

Saying that, I’d love to have 1-2 above average players who have had postseason success on this team.  
 

[emmett16]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

That’s definitely a possibility but assuming Means is healthy going forward they may want to leave a spot open and hope Hall takes it with Irvin as a safety net.  Getting an established #3 essentially relegates Hall to the pen or bumps Kremer.   We’ll see if they feel they still need a veteran who can add stability.   Past actions do point to adding an established ML starter.   

I’m of the belief you can never have enough pitching.  I know it pushes some guys, but it also ups the competition and makes the team better IMO.  I could see them spending FA $ on a #3 or making a legit trade for a #3.  I think it’s very much out of the realm of possibility they target a #1 or #2 type.  If they stood pat, I wouldn’t be terribly upset.  Bradish, GRod, Means, Kremer, Wells, Hall, McDermott, Povich is pretty good depth.  I always like to see 8 legit starters in total. I’d feel a bit better if both McDermott & Povich weren’t one of those 8.  
 

Edit: I forgot Irvin 

Edited October 12, 2023 by emmett16

[emmett16]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I would love to know how hurt Means was when they left him off the playoff roster.

This is a very good point. I meant to include it in my last comment.  If he can’t be trusted to make a full year contribution, I think they absolutely need at least 1 and maybe 2 SPs.

[Low Country Bird]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Snell as an ACE is a difference maker. Holliday as a true leadoff is a difference maker. 

1. Holliday L 2B

2. Adley S C

3. Gunnar L SS

4. Santander S RF

5. Mountcastle R 1B

6. O’Hearn L DH

7. Hays R LF

8. Mullins L CF

9. Westburg R 3B

Holliday will rack up enough across the board stats to win ROY and the first rd pick. 

No Kjerstad or Cowser?  I think we move on from Hays and/or Mullins this offseason.

[emmett16]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Snell as an ACE is a difference maker. Holliday as a true leadoff is a difference maker. 

1. Holliday L 2B

2. Adley S C

3. Gunnar L SS

4. Santander S RF

5. Mountcastle R 1B

6. O’Hearn L DH

7. Hays R LF

8. Mullins L CF

9. Westburg R 3B

Holliday will rack up enough across the board stats to win ROY and the first rd pick. 

Replace Hays with Cowser and O’Hearn with Kjerstad and I’m on board.  
 

Not sure if O’Hearn nets anything in a trade.  Hays should fetch a RP or a low level prospect. 

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m as big a fan of Snell as any one in this board. Any deal longer than 4 years is way too long for Snell and even 4 years is probably a year too long.

Snell is a beast. He is about to win his second CY award. But the injuries and inability to go deep into games lowers his contract ceiling for me.

I don’t really care about the money as much as the years.  He has been on a cheap contract for a while, so you know he wants to cash out.

Im guessing he gets 5 or 6 years at 30ishM a year.

Nobody is an ideal fit but I think we can make Snell work. Yes, we have to spend money on him, but we also get to keep our prospects which keeps future payroll down. Also, we can afford to coddle Snell during the regular season to maximize him.

No move is going to be risk free. I’m all for coddling Snell for years and letting him be our Ace in the playoffs. 

[Bemorewins]

20 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

You said you were  disappointed with ten results at the end of the season….The process & results were fantastic, they got unlucky in a short series.  Why would  they change the strategy that won them 101 games?  Playoffs are a crap shoot.  The roster will be upgraded with minor FA signings, minor trades, promoting AAA players, and the improvement of players already on the roster…..just like they did last year.  
 

I see. That is where we have a point of departure. While I agree that the results of the regular season were fantastic and better than anyone could have imagined! On the other hand, I see the results of the postseason largely being impacted by our decision at the deadline to remain as is. Just about every single player we brought in during toast offseason and at the deadline did not impact the series with the Rangers in a positive (as a matter of fact, some like Webb were a negative difference). 

IMO - the pitcher (Nathan Eovaldi) who beat us in game 3 and pitched the only good game of the series. Jordan Montgomery could have been ours and so could Chapman (who’s not that great IMO but MUCH better and more reliable than Fujinama who couldn’t even be trusted to be placed on our post season roster and instead a spot was given to Bryan Baker and we all know how that went and was inevitable to go).

When you only lead a 3 game series during 1 inning, my conclusion is not that it was luck. My conclusion is that we were soundly beaten and outclassed. Other than DL Hall and the very limited time that we could even use Cano, what pitcher did we have that could get any of their hitter’s out consistently?

IMO the series with the Rangers was not a result of bad luck or even facing a hot team because I believe that had we faced the Astros, Rays, Braves, Dodgers (maybe the Phillies) the results would have been very similar. IMO we didn’t not have the pitcher talent necessary to defeat the game’s best hitters/lineups in a short series with the pressure of every pitch being super impactful that comes along with October baseball. I feared that all season long going back to April/May and stated such here so many times that I made some posters sick of hearing it. 

Now I am not trying to act like some kind of know-it-all or clairvoyant because I am wrong MANY times. But on this one thing, I think there were many (especially outside observers of our team) who were skeptical regarding whether our pitching would hold up in the postseason.

You ask “why would we change” because my concern (which is I think is valid given how this season ended) is that we don’t have the kind of pitching that you need to win in October. If winning in the postseason is a goal, then I hope that we do something different and add on to our talent in a meaningful way next year. 

I am not advocating for an overhaul, we have many foundational pieces already in place, just a couple of meaningful add-ons.

[emmett16]

33 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I see. That is where we have a point of departure. While I agree that the results of the regular season were fantastic and better than anyone could have imagined! On the other hand, I see the results of the postseason largely being impacted by our decision at the deadline to remain as is. Just about every single player we brought in during toast offseason and at the deadline did not impact the series with the Rangers in a positive (as a matter of fact, some like Webb were a negative difference). 

IMO - the pitcher (Nathan Eovaldi) who beat us in game 3 and pitched the only good game of the series. Jordan Montgomery could have been ours and so could Chapman (who’s not that great IMO but MUCH better and more reliable than Fujinama who couldn’t even be trusted to be placed on our post season roster and instead a spot was given to Bryan Baker and we all know how that went and was inevitable to go).

When you only lead a 3 game series during 1 inning, my conclusion is not that it was luck. My conclusion is that we were soundly beaten and outclassed. Other than DL Hall and the very limited time that we could even use Cano, what pitcher did we have that could get any of their hitter’s out consistently?

IMO the series with the Rangers was not a result of bad luck or even facing a hot team because I believe that had we faced the Astros, Rays, Braves, Dodgers (maybe the Phillies) the results would have been very similar. IMO we didn’t not have the pitcher talent necessary to defeat the game’s best hitters/lineups in a short series with the pressure of every pitch being super impactful that comes along with October baseball. I feared that all season long going back to April/May and stated such here so many times that I made some posters sick of hearing it. 

Now I am not trying to act like some kind of know-it-all or clairvoyant because I am wrong MANY times. But on this one thing, I think there were many (especially outside observers of our team) who were skeptical regarding whether our pitching would hold up in the postseason.

You ask “why would we change” because my concern (which is I think is valid given how this season ended) is that we don’t have the kind of pitching that you need to win in October. If winning in the postseason is a goal, then I hope that we do something different and add on to our talent in a meaningful way next year. 

I am not advocating for an overhaul, we have many foundational pieces already in place, just a couple of meaningful add-ons.

Bradish had 9Ks through 4.2ip
 

The season ended with the Os having 2 of the top 3 pitchers in the AL since the AllStar break.  Those pitchers are 23 & 24 y/o and will continue to improve.  
 

You will be hard pressed to improve on our top two pitchers no matter what you are willing to spend or trade.  
 

 

Edit: GRod is 23 & Bradish is 27.  

Edited October 12, 2023 by emmett16

[jabba72]

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

 

Step one:  Don't sign Frazier.