Trade Package: Mountcastle or O'Hearn, Norby and Stowers for a SP

[scbalt52]

1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Basallo is a huge price to pay for a starter.  I don't think I would include him for anyone named Gilbert in your list.  I would be interested in Cease or Keller if the price is right.  Both of them have elite stuff with not the best results other than Cease's Cy Young contender season.  If the O's could do a Kjerstad, Ortiz/Norby, 3rd prospect in 10-15 range (maybe McDermott) I would definitely be in favor of the trade.  Teams w/ above average to great starters are not trading them for spare parts. 

Yeah I agree, Basallo wouldn't be needed for everyone I listed. He just has a lot of value and someone I'd still be willing to give in on if it was for the right starter. He's just below the untouchables for me (not trading Gunnar, Grayson, Adley, Holliday - obviously). I'd hate to move Basallo or Mayo, but I think if we do make a big trade (hard to define what big is exactly) the headliner is probably one of the 2. Kjerstad is in that same area, as you mentioned.

 

I bolded your last sentence because I think that's really both of our points. Even if our spare parts are a bit better than everyone else's spare parts

[Moose Milligan]

The Irvin trade comp is an interesting one.  He was good value, we didn't have to give up much for him.  Still, what we gave up was a player that had some upside, some perhaps untapped potential.  Mountcastle isn't that and he plays a position where it's not hard to find offense.  O'Hearn is going to be met with some skepticism, people are going to think he might be a one year wonder.  Norby and to a lesser extent, Stowers are guys that can be looked at with some upside.  

Hard to say what a package with any combination of those guys would return to us but it's also important to note that trading O'Hearn and/or Mountcastle isn't necessarily about the value of the return, it's also about the ability to promote Mayo to 1B quickly and easily.  

Anyway, I'd be alright with trading any of these guys, depending on what the return is.

[Just Regular]

Joe Musgrove has become a minor star, but the Astroball guys Verlander 1, Cole and Greinke acquisitions were mostly spare parts.

Colin Moran was a polished low power college bat maybe similar to Colton Cowser.

Looking at that Cease track record snip, the ERA's move around but the thing that fundamentally hits me is the Lyles-Gibson like health track record.

Today's White Sox do remind me of Duquette and Buck's end of the liners.     Even Andrew Vaughn only has 3 years to go as he earned the full year in 2021.

If the concept became a Cease+ blockbuster, frankly Eloy Jimenez seems at more of a Buy Low moment for our value bidders relative to Luis Robert off a peak year.

[Malike]

If they don't plan on playing guys like Ortiz and Norby, they have to trade them. They are going to both be MLB players and are getting to the age where you start to do them a disservice by keeping them in the minors with nothing left to prove. Ortiz would be a top 50 prospect who is 26 next year and Norby will be 24. They should either give them both a legitimate shot or trade them.

[OriolesMagic83]

On 10/17/2023 at 4:03 PM, Just Regular said:

Joe Musgrove has become a minor star, but the Astroball guys Verlander 1, Cole and Greinke acquisitions were mostly spare parts.

Colin Moran was a polished low power college bat maybe similar to Colton Cowser.

Looking at that Cease track record snip, the ERA's move around but the thing that fundamentally hits me is the Lyles-Gibson like health track record.

Today's White Sox do remind me of Duquette and Buck's end of the liners.     Even Andrew Vaughn only has 3 years to go as he earned the full year in 2021.

If the concept became a Cease+ blockbuster, frankly Eloy Jimenez seems at more of a Buy Low moment for our value bidders relative to Luis Robert off a peak year.

Would Hays plus prospect get you Eloy Jimenez?

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Would Hays plus prospect get you Eloy Jimenez?

Why would either team do that deal? I'm not sure Jimenez is better than Hays. Last year Hays had better OPS+ and plays way better defense. 

[RZNJ]

The White Sox top prospect, Colton Montgomery, is a SS but he finished in AA last year and might not be ready this year.  Elvis Andrés and even moreso Tim Anderson were bad in the middle.   Gotta figure they’re set with Moncada at 3B, Vaughn at 1B, Jiménez at DH, Benintendi in LF and Robert in CF.  Do they stick with the young Cuban, Oscar Colas, in RF where he really struggled offensively?   They’re light in the rotation and the bullpen.   Norby, Ortiz, or Westburg would all make sense viewed as 2B or SS.  If they don’t believe in Colas, they might be interested in Cowser or Kjerstad.   I imagine people would start getting squeamish if you offered Ortiz and Kjerstad for Dylan Cease.  Westburg and Cowser?   Might have to throw a Povich or McDermott in there.   Too much?  Not enough?

[tntoriole]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The White Sox top prospect, Colton Montgomery, is a SS but he finished in AA last year and might not be ready this year.  Elvis Andrés and even moreso Tim Anderson were bad in the middle.   Gotta figure they’re set with Moncada at 3B, Vaughn at 1B, Jiménez at DH, Benintendi in LF and Robert in CF.  Do they stick with the young Cuban, Oscar Colas, in RF where he really struggled offensively?   They’re light in the rotation and the bullpen.   Norby, Ortiz, or Westburg would all make sense viewed as 2B or SS.  If they don’t believe in Colas, they might be interested in Cowser or Kjerstad.   I imagine people would start getting squeamish if you offered Ortiz and Kjerstad for Dylan Cease.  Westburg and Cowser?   Might have to throw a Povich or McDermott in there.   Too much?  Not enough?

Ortiz, Cowser, Povich … yes.  Westburg, Kjerstad, McDermott no. 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Ortiz, Cowser, Povich … yes.  Westburg, Kjerstad, McDermott no. 

What if the White Sox insisted on Kjerstad instead of Cowser?    Ortiz, Kjerstad, and Povich for 2 years of Dylan Cease?

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

What if the White Sox insisted on Kjerstad instead of Cowser?    Ortiz, Kjerstad, and Povich for 2 years of Dylan Cease?

Elias plays the long game.  He knows he will need Kjerstad and Cowser in a year.

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Elias plays the long game.  He knows he will need Kjerstad and Cowser in a year.

Beavers probably ends the year in AAA this year.  Norby is a potential LF.   Fabian in AA.  We just drafted Bradfield, Horvath, and 3 other outfielders, some of who should make it to AA this year.   Elias plays the long game which should allow him the depth to play the short game too.

To make trades you have to give the other team something they want, not only what you want to give them.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by RZNJ

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Beavers probably ends the year in AAA this year.  Norby is a potential LF.   Fabian in AA.  We just drafted Bradfield, Horvath, and 3 other outfielders, some of who should make it to AA this year.   Elias plays the long game which should allow him the depth to play the short game too.

To make trades you have to give the other team something they want, not only what you want to give them.

 

Prospects to watch but they are not on the same level as Cowser and Kjerstad now or maybe in the future.

Beavers is not showing power.  Norby does not have the speed to play left in Camden Yards.  His speed is rated average.  And he has hardly played left.   Fabian is below the Mendoza line in AA.  Bradfield has a lot to prove with the bat.  Horvath will probably take a while to get to the majors.

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Prospects to watch but they are not on the same level as Cowser and Kjerstad now or maybe in the future.

Beavers is not showing power.  Norby does not have the speed to play left in Camden Yards.  His speed is rated average.  And he has hardly played left.   Fabian is below the Mendoza line in AA.  Bradfield has a lot to prove with the bat.  Horvath will probably take a while to get to the majors.

Horvath was a college bat that played at a high level and was drafted high. He easily could move quickly. 

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Prospects to watch but they are not on the same level as Cowser and Kjerstad now or maybe in the future.

Beavers is not showing power.  Norby does not have the speed to play left in Camden Yards.  His speed is rated average.  And he has hardly played left.   Fabian is below the Mendoza line in AA.  Bradfield has a lot to prove with the bat.  Horvath will probably take a while to get to the majors.

Fangraphs have Beavers rated higher than Cowser.   Beavers didn’t hit a lot of home runs this year.  He did show power and almost everything I’ve read says he has plenty.   You say Norby has average speed which precludes him from playing LF in OPACY.   Maybe, he certainly doesn’t have the experience.  Do you know for a fact that Hays is faster than Norby?

Hays and Mullins are here through the 2025 season if the Orioles decide to go that way.   It’s not imperative to have 2 outfielders in addition by OD 2024 although, as I’ve said, I believe Beavers will be ready and there’s an outside chance on Norby being a possibility.

The White Sox, IMO, have no need or want for Mountcastle and the idea of O’Hearn with one year of service time is ridiculous.   You want to trade our 3rd best 2B prospect after Westburg and Ortiz.   Why do the White Sox want our 3rd best prospect at a position when they are trading one, if not their most valuable, trade pieces?

[RZNJ]

One more thing.  Dylan Beavers just turned 22 in August.  When Cowser turned 22 he had yet to play a game in A+ and had shown significantly less power than Beavers has to this point.  Beavers had 26 doubles and 9 homers in 85 games with Aberdeen.   The fact that his power was down while adjusting to AA pitching is not something I’m expecting to continue but I think it’s fair to say that he has power and has shown that power.