Cease vs everyone else

[RZNJ]

11 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

re: RZNJ's post: I think the WS board prefers Westburg or HK in a trade because they both hit OK in their MLB debuts so it's easier for them to project success vs Cowser or Ortiz. Most of us are sick of all the Cease talk and just want something done to make it stop. For me it's Cowser and/or Ortiz that are available, not Westburg or HK. I believe in HK's bat over Cowser from a power perspective and average, Cowser will have a better BB percentage. I love Ortiz but his time is now and I don't believe Elias -Hyde would move ROY Gunnar off his preferred position for Joey. That moves Westburg to 3B to make room for Joey at 2B. Westburg is better at 3B than anyone not named Gunnar. What happens when Holiday come up. Joey to Util? That would be a poor use of a prospect asset unless Joey just doesn't hit, but I believe he will. Joey should be a starting SS in 2024 somewhere, probably not here because of Gunnar-Holiday.

1.  The WS board doesn’t want Westburg because they want a LH power hitter (Kjerstad).  They don’t like the fact that Westburg is RH and only hit 3 homers last year.

2.  We know 99.9% that Holliday and Henderson are 2/3 of our infield starting sometime in 2024.  Is the 3rd guy Ortiz, Westburg, or Mayo?   Right now I’d guess Westburg.  It certainly would be interesting if 2 of those 3 start the year in the IF and perform very well.

[Aristotelian]

14 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

re: RZNJ's post: I think the WS board prefers Westburg or HK in a trade because they both hit OK in their MLB debuts so it's easier for them to project success vs Cowser or Ortiz. Most of us are sick of all the Cease talk and just want something done to make it stop. For me it's Cowser and/or Ortiz that are available, not Westburg or HK. I believe in HK's bat over Cowser from a power perspective and average, Cowser will have a better BB percentage. I love Ortiz but his time is now and I don't believe Elias -Hyde would move ROY Gunnar off his preferred position for Joey. That moves Westburg to 3B to make room for Joey at 2B. Westburg is better at 3B than anyone not named Gunnar. What happens when Holiday come up. Joey to Util? That would be a poor use of a prospect asset unless Joey just doesn't hit, but I believe he will. Joey should be a starting SS in 2024 somewhere, probably not here because of Gunnar-Holiday.

And Mayo could be in the mix somewhere. Still, Ortiz has value with plus defense at SS and flexibility to play anywhere (as long as he hits). The problem is, until we see them all play we don't know exactly where they fit, so it makes it hard to trade guys like Westburg and Ortiz. Can Mayo play 3B at a high level, or will he be 1B/DH? What about Holliday at SS? Can Ortiz hit? If Mayo is 1B/DH and Ortiz never hits (both could happen), Westburg could have a path to starting 3B.

[AnythingO's]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And Mayo could be in the mix somewhere. Still, Ortiz has value with plus defense at SS and flexibility to play anywhere (as long as he hits). The problem is, until we see them all play we don't know exactly where they fit, so it makes it hard to trade guys like Westburg and Ortiz. Can Mayo play 3B at a high level, or will he be 1B/DH? What about Holliday at SS? Can Ortiz hit? If Mayo is 1B/DH and Ortiz never hits (both could happen), Westburg could have a path to starting 3B.

I think whatever they do now to start 2024 will be different than how they finish. Joey needs a chance now, while we wait for Mayo and Holliday, or we are wasting an asset IMO. If he hits, we need to decide between Westburg and Ortiz. They won't move Gunnar off SS for Joey so WEstburg goes to 3B, where he is better, and Joey to 2B. When Holliday forces his way up they have to decide what to do with Joey. Similar thing with Mayo. I understand 1B is a waste of a special arm so they are looking at him for 3B and RF. Will he be better than Cowser or HK in RF defensively? IDK butI would try to keep the infielder on the dirt. If someone has to move from the dirt to the COF, my choice would be Westburg due to his speed and athleticism. Long story short I want to see Mayo at 1B, Westy at 2B, Holiday at SS and Gunnar at 3B but what do I know.

[NCRaven]

59 minutes ago, G54377 said:

Elias has a line in the sand with the top X rated guys...

If Elias wanted top X rated guys, he'd just sign Bauer.

[Aristotelian]

13 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

I think whatever they do now to start 2024 will be different than how they finish. Joey needs a chance now, while we wait for Mayo and Holliday, or we are wasting an asset IMO. If he hits, we need to decide between Westburg and Ortiz. They won't move Gunnar off SS for Joey so WEstburg goes to 3B, where he is better, and Joey to 2B. When Holliday forces his way up they have to decide what to do with Joey. Similar thing with Mayo. I understand 1B is a waste of a special arm so they are looking at him for 3B and RF. Will he be better than Cowser or HK in RF defensively? IDK butI would try to keep the infielder on the dirt. If someone has to move from the dirt to the COF, my choice would be Westburg due to his speed and athleticism. Long story short I want to see Mayo at 1B, Westy at 2B, Holiday at SS and Gunnar at 3B but what do I know.

If they determine we are best with Ortiz at SS, Gunnar should understand that and Ortiz should play there. Gunnar is hyper competitive and will do whatever it takes to win IMO. If Gunnar wins SS it should be on the merits, not entitlement.

[RarityFlaherty]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Why are so many ok with trading Westburg and not Kjerstad?   Is it strictly the RH LH batter thing?   Westburg was just as highly rated, has more speed and defensive value and I would argue that his power is not far behind Kjerstad.   Also, the wall will hurt Kjerstad as well as he likes to go left center quite a bit.   

I’m okay with trading either of them. I’m probably alone, but think I’d probably favor trading one of either Kjerstad or Cowser over Westburg. I feel like we can afford to trade one of Kjerstad or Cowser without it hurting too much. I also like how Westburg fits in with the current group of players and the fact that he’s good friends with Henderson. I think keeping him is better for team chemistry. I’d still trade him for Cease if that’s what it takes though. It just feels like Westburg is worth more to us than he would be in a trade. I think Holliday, Basallo, and Mayo are the only prospects that I wouldn’t trade. 

Edited January 15 by RarityFlaherty

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

I’m okay with trading either of them. I’m probably alone, but think I’d probably favor trading one of either Kjerstad or Cowser over Westburg. I feel like we can afford to trade one of Kjerstad or Cowser without it hurting too much. I also like how Westburg fits in with the current group of players and the fact that he’s good friends with Henderson. I think keeping him is better for team chemistry. I’d still trade him for Cease if that’s what it takes though. It just feels like Westburg is worth more to us than he would be in a trade. I think Holliday, Basallo, and Mayo are the only prospects that I wouldn’t trade. 

Cowser is closer than Westburg it seems

[Roll Tide]

23 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If they determine we are best with Ortiz at SS, Gunnar should understand that and Ortiz should play there. Gunnar is hyper competitive and will do whatever it takes to win IMO. If Gunnar wins SS it should be on the merits, not entitlement.

I agree 

[RarityFlaherty]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Cowser is closer than Westburg it seems

To Gunnar? Where did you see that? I remember seeing an interview with all three of them where they all seemed like friends, but everything I read always talked about Henderson and Westburg. If all three are close, maybe that means Kjerstad ends up being who gets traded. 
 

[Roll Tide]

11 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

To Gunnar? Where did you see that? I remember seeing an interview with all three of them where they all seemed like friends, but everything I read always talked about Henderson and Westburg. If all three are close, maybe that means Kjerstad ends up being who gets traded. 
 

I don’t think Elias cares. We have Henderson, Mayo, Ortiz, Westburg, Holiday, as our future generations infield. 
 

If the future OF is Cowser, Kjerstad, Bradfield. not counting Beavers yet. And I’m concerned that Kjerstad ends up at 1B. Plus Cowser looked shaky in the OF.

While I’d prefer to deal Westburg the extra depth as of right now is in the IF imo
 

[emmett16]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Why are so many ok with trading Westburg and not Kjerstad?   Is it strictly the RH LH batter thing?   Westburg was just as highly rated, has more speed and defensive value and I would argue that his power is not far behind Kjerstad.   Also, the wall will hurt Kjerstad as well as he likes to go left center quite a bit.   

More depth in the IF.  I think he’s the better player but you replace him with Holliday.  Kjerstad gets replaced with Stowers.  

[emmett16]

2 hours ago, waroriole said:

You know, if the White Sox had traded Cease to us after 2022, they could have got Basallo as like a 2nd or 3rd piece in a trade. 

Doubt it.  The FO was always high on him, everyone else jumped on bandwagon recently. 
 

I think he also fetches you a better haul.  Has a bit more value and will bring back more. 

Edited January 15 by emmett16

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

More depth in the IF.  I think he’s the better player but you replace him with Holliday.  Kjerstad gets replaced with Stowers.  

Right now, Westburg is the starting 2B.  Right now Kjerstad doesn’t have a spot.  I would say Cowser is next man up if Kjerstad is traded.  Beavers is one year away.   Even if Holliday is up, you have Henderson, and ?.   It’s Ortiz or Westburg.   

[Sports Guy]

27 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

To Gunnar? Where did you see that? I remember seeing an interview with all three of them where they all seemed like friends, but everything I read always talked about Henderson and Westburg. If all three are close, maybe that means Kjerstad ends up being who gets traded. 
 

I just mean in general but Cowser and Gunnar did room together and they are very close.

[RZNJ]

42 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

To Gunnar? Where did you see that? I remember seeing an interview with all three of them where they all seemed like friends, but everything I read always talked about Henderson and Westburg. If all three are close, maybe that means Kjerstad ends up being who gets traded. 
 

Kjerstad just went to hang at Hollidays house for a few days.  That’s gotta count for something!   Lol