Cease vs everyone else

[Malike]

Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

Ok Captain Hindsight, so every minor leaguer that doesn't perform right out of the gate is considered "rushed"? Cowser had nothing left to prove at AAA and using a sample size of 61 MLB ABs to judge a player is almost as silly as using wins to evaluate a pitcher's ability/skill set. Almost. 

I had as much criticism of Cowser's debut as anyone. He looked awful, but I do think he's going to be a solid to above-average player and the SS is way too small. I mean, Henderson looked just as bad to start the season.

[wildbillhiccup]

3 minutes ago, Malike said:

If they keep doing what they are doing both in the draft and internationally, which we're really not used to this team being competent at for the past couple of decades, it should help mitigate a full rebuild. Yes, we suffered through horrible seasons, we drafted well and hit on players we had to hit on, but that doesn't mean we'll be in full rebuild mode in the upcoming future if they keep doing what they are doing.

 

I think the true test is going to come when Elias doesn't have a pocket full of high draft picks to rely on each year to restock the farm system. He's either going to have to really knock the picks he does have out of the park or supplement those draft picks with additional prospects via trade. It's doable, but it's going to be a much smaller needle to thread than he had in the rebuild years. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Malike said:

I had as much criticism of Cowser's debut as anyone. He looked awful, but I do think he's going to be a solid to above-average player and the SS is way too small. I mean, Henderson looked just as bad to start the season.

He had a similar no hit high walk start that both Adley and Gunnar had.

[wildbillhiccup]

3 minutes ago, Malike said:

I had as much criticism of Cowser's debut as anyone. He looked awful, but I do think he's going to be a solid to above-average player and the SS is way too small. I mean, Henderson looked just as bad to start the season.

Agreed. I haven't lost faith in him either. I'm hoping the O's find a way to give him a longer leash this season and give him time to get comfortable. If they truly believe in him that's really what they should do. And if they have doubts they should probably consider trading him. 

[emmett16]

36 minutes ago, brooooksy said:

If you feel this way (I do) you should be fundamentally opposed to tanking.

however, the orioles went ahead and tanked to give themselves a competitive advantage and making their team difficult to watch for years. So in context no, shooting to average 88 wins is not good enough.

Heh?  They tanked, sure.  But to say that was the sole strategy you’re missing the boat.  They turned over almost the entire organization,  built an international program from scratch, built a DR training facility, implemented new age development techniques, and started the pipeline that will be delivering players for years to come.  Their strategy wasnt tanking.  They built an entire new baseball organization from scratch.  I’ll give them a pass on not wasting money on the MLB product during that process, I’ll also wait patiently to see how the 2024 roster unfolds because every single poster (including myself) has been proven wrong when doubting them.  

Edited January 14 by emmett16

[wildbillhiccup]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Agreed. I haven't lost faith in him either. I'm hoping the O's find a way to give him a longer leash this season and give him time to get comfortable. If they truly believe in him that's really what they should do. And if they have doubts they should probably consider trading him. 

The more I think about it the more I think the O's should trade Hays for minor leaguers (preferably pitchers) and commit to Cowser as the starter if they truly believe in him. Banking on Cowser to replace Hays' bat seems like a relatively low risk move since it's not a very high bar.

[emmett16]

41 minutes ago, Malike said:

Since 2008 Tampa has been played to a .548 winning percentage with 9 playoff appearances despite having basically no payroll. I wonder, what do you consider real success? That sure screams a successful org to me.

They are so bad that no one in baseball poaches their employees. 

[Roll Tide]

41 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Ok Captain Hindsight, so every minor leaguer that doesn't perform right out of the gate is considered "rushed"? Cowser had nothing left to prove at AAA and using a sample size of 61 MLB ABs to judge a player is almost as silly as using wins to evaluate a pitcher's ability/skill set. Almost. 

Quit being a troll. He looked poor in the field also. If he came up and performed as advertised in the field then I could dismiss his early struggles in the field. 

[emmett16]

46 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I think the true test is going to come when Elias doesn't have a pocket full of high draft picks to rely on each year to restock the farm system. He's either going to have to really knock the picks he does have out of the park or supplement those draft picks with additional prospects via trade. It's doable, but it's going to be a much smaller needle to thread than he had in the rebuild years. 

They have consistently drafted well after the 1st round for the last 5 years, why would that suddenly change w/o having a high first round pick?  They get 3 picks in top 34 this year and I fully expect them to have a very impressive draft.  I’d take 3 Mac Horvaths all day er’day. 

Edited January 14 by emmett16

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, emmett16 said:

They have consistently drafted well after the 1st round for the last 5 years, why would that suddenly change w/o having a high first round pick?  

That's true, but how would our team and farm system be looking without Rutschman, Holliday, and Kjerstad who were all high draft picks? I'm not saying they won't continue to find gems in the later rounds, I'm just saying they won't have the crutch of high early round picks to fall back if if they don't pan out (i.e., smaller needle to thread). 

[wildbillhiccup]

11 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Quit being a troll. He looked poor in the field also. If he came up and performed as advertised in the field then I could dismiss his early struggles in the field. 

Gunnar Henderson, just like Colton Cowser, also struggled defensively out of the gate. Did you dismiss him as well since he didn't initially "perform as advertised in the field"? Or do you only rely on small sample sizes when they fit your ever changing narrative? 

[emmett16]

23 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

That's true, but how would our team and farm system be looking without Rutschman, Holliday, and Kjerstad who were all high draft picks? I'm not saying they won't continue to find gems in the later rounds, I'm just saying they won't have the crutch of high early round picks to fall back if if they don't pan out (i.e., smaller needle to thread). 

Gunnar’s not too shabby.  Kjerstad & Holliday havn’t done anything.  Adley has been great, agreed.  
 

The farm system would still be ranked very high w/o Holliday & Kjerstad.  The high picks have helped out, no doubt.  But the system is ranked so highly because of the depth.  I’d say the majority of the posters thought the farm rankings would drop after Adleys promotion and then again after Gunnar’s promotion, but there here we are.  
 

Darell Hernaiz (ranked 17th in our system at time of trade) was a 5th round pick that netted us an established starter and was the A’s MILB player of the year last year with a chance at the MLB SS job this year.  

Edited January 14 by emmett16

[wildbillhiccup]

5 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Gunnar’s not too shabby.  Kjerstad & Holliday havnt done anything.  Adley has been great, agreed.  
 

The farm system would still be ranked very high w/o Holliday & Kjerstad.  The high picke have helped out, no doubt.  But the system is ranked so high because of the depth.  I’d say the majority of the posters thought the farm rankings would drop after Adleys promotion and then again after Gunnar’s promotion, but there here we are.  
 

Darell Hernaiz was a 5th round pick that netted us an established starter and was the A’s MILB player of the year last year with a chance at the MLB SS job this year.  

It feels like we're splitting hairs here. All I'm saying is that there will be less margin for error with fewer high draft picks (in the future). Can we just agree on that point? 

[emmett16]

5 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

It feels like we're splitting hairs here. All I'm saying is that there will be less margin for error with fewer high draft picks (in the future). Can we just agree on that point? 

Sure.  That’s fair. 
 

All I’m saying is guys they’ve drafted in the 2nd, 4th, & 5th rounds just might turn out to be better than the guys from round 1. 

Edited January 14 by emmett16

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, emmett16 said:

Sure.  That’s fair. 
 

All I’m saying is guys they’ve drafted guys in the 2nd, 4th, & 5th rounds just might turn out to be better than the guys from round 1. 

 and fingers crossed that they do.