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Santander for Bieber

Sports Guy

By Sports Guy
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Santander for Bieber  

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  1. 1. Would you trade Santander for Shane Bieber?

    • Yes
      53
    • No
      33

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Jagwar Hangout Grand Counsel

Jagwar

Posted
Posted
Just now, RZNJ said:

We won 101 games because of guys like Henderson, Bradish, and Bautista, among others, who hadn’t proven a damn thing 1-2 years ago.

But... they were complemented by guys like Santander who (somehow) quietly added MOO production. I'm hopeful that Kjerstad and Cowser can provide it in the future, but I'm just not ready to count on 2 rookies to fill Santander's role yet. 

And in my response to the OP, I said I would do the trade if I thought there was a FA who could be signed to fill Santander's production. 

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sportsfan8703
sportsfan8703

I think we're better off with... Bradish, Grayson, Means, Kremer, Gibson/Wells/Hall/Irvin + Santander  than.... Bradish, Grayson, Means, Bieber, Kremer w/o Santander

Frobby
Frobby

Look, no disrespect to Santander intended, but he’s a 109 OPS+ hitter for his career, who’s been at 120 and 121 the last two years.   I can’t say Kjerstad will top 120 in his first year, but he might,

forphase1
forphase1

Just to be clear,  only once in his career has Santander had a .800 OPS or better.   It is possible?  Of course it's possible.   Is it so probable that a team with WS aspirations can write it in ink? 

Jagwar Hangout Grand Counsel

Jagwar

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s because you are greatly overrating a very small sample size and ignoring many other things.

The thing I don’t understand about Os fans (and I’m saying this in general, not about any one in particular) is how we praise Elias for what he has built. We drool over the farm system and the glowing reports about it…and then when it comes time to bring them up or if they don’t immediately produce, we want to toss them aside and forget all of that.

It makes no sense to me. You either believe in these guys or you don’t.

I think you are aiming something unrealistic at me. I'm not saying don't give Kjerstad and Cowser a chance to step up. I"m saying don't be surprised if they struggle. 

There are other positions on the field where the O's can try to add a run producer through trade or FA. 

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

But... they were complemented by guys like Santander who (somehow) quietly added MOO production. I'm hopeful that Kjerstad and Cowser can provide it in the future, but I'm just not ready to count on 2 rookies to fill Santander's role yet. 

And in my response to the OP, I said I would do the trade if I thought there was a FA who could be signed to fill Santander's production. 

If you’re not ready now you’ll never be ready.  We’ll have to replace every departing veteran with another proven veteran.  

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I think you are aiming something unrealistic at me. I'm not saying don't give Kjerstad and Cowser a chance to step up. I"m saying don't be surprised if they struggle. 

There are other positions on the field where the O's can try to add a run producer through trade or FA. 

You are trying to find a run producer and I too would like to add a MOO bat but I don’t see that player out there. 
 

That said, Santander isn’t a true MOO bat himself and if you use him to upgrade pitching, that puts you in the same place you are now and then you add in the player who replaces him.

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Jagwar Hangout Grand Counsel

Jagwar

Posted
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Just now, Sports Guy said:

You are trying to find a run producer and I too would like to add a MOO bat but I don’t see that player out there. 
 

That said, Santander isn’t a true MOO bat himself and if you use him to upgrade pitching, that puts you in the same place you are now and then you add in the player who replaces him.

Well now that is a different proposition yes? Does trading Santander for a pitching upgrade actually improve aggregate value? Then I'm all for it. 

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
Posted
Just now, Jagwar said:

Do you want to field a team with all rookies?

You mean, kind of like the Reds did last year?   It’s not realistic this year but Cowser, Kjerstad, Holliday, Mayo, even Ortiz could all be playing prominent roles by the 2nd half.

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I'm not sure I even have 50% confidence, not when I want the O's to take the next step towards a WS. I hope our rookies can thrive, but the landscape has changed.  

Okay.  You don’t have confidence in the young guys.  I do.  And I don’t care about the landscape changing.

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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3 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Well now that is a different proposition yes? Does trading Santander for a pitching upgrade actually improve aggregate value? Then I'm all for it. 

Who is likely to produce more WAR next year?

Santander or Bieber?

Santander seems the easy choice.

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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8 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Who is likely to produce more WAR next year?

Santander or Bieber?

Santander seems the easy choice.

Bieber 1.8 WAR in 21 starts.  Santander 3.0 in 153 games.  Should be pretty close IF Bieber can make 30 starts like he did in 2022.

 

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