Elias talks Stowers

[AlbNYfan]

25 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

The same emotional tug can be said for the HS bench player or travel league guy who just misses or 8U borderline player pushed down to the C team. 

You really equate the two?? I am not talking an emotional correlation...I am not talking recreational vs professional. I am talking about a short-term career and potentially a million dollar plus loss for every year he is denied at least a chance. Stowers is certainly not an isolated case. A guy like McKenna, who would likely be in same situation if in the Oriole's minors today, is a lucky guy (we let Yaz go????). I realize there is no easy solution (that's why I rooted for a guy like Watkins, that was ready to hang it up and his wife convinced to give it another chance). We often treat these guys like disposal player cards. They are not cards. Yes, it's a chosen career, some get a considerable signing bonus, but to come close to a dream and financial rewards of that dream has to be tough (that is the emotional context).

[emmett16]

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I don’t understand this line of thinking. It’s not some travesty. It’s depth. We’ve played by the rules. They were all added to the 40 man and protected from the rule 5 draft the first year they were eligible. Now the O’s have them for three option years. 

We draft and drafted a lot of college bats. It’s not the team’s fault that they successfully drafted and developed. Also, these dudes got some pretty big signing bonuses. 

Norby - 1,700,000

Stowers - 884,200

Ortiz - 450,000

 

 

Seriously.  The 'all kids deserve trophies' thinking is obnoxious.  Those guys should be extremely thankful that they were taken in by a system that will have them optimized by the time they leave (whenever that is).  If these guys were drafted by Colorado, for example, they'd likely have had their chance, floundered, and been forgotten by now.  This thought that we have guys wasting away in the minors is so strange and hard to wrap my head around.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, AlbNYfan said:

You really equate the two?? I am not talking an emotional correlation...I am not talking recreational vs professional. I am talking about a short-term career and potentially a million dollar plus loss for every year he is denied at least a chance. Stowers is certainly not an isolated case. A guy like McKenna, who would likely be in same situation if in the Oriole's minors today, is a lucky guy (we let Yaz go????). I realize there is no easy solution (that's why I rooted for a guy like Watkins, that was ready to hang it up and his wife convinced to give it another chance). We often treat these guys like disposal player cards. They are not cards. Yes, it's a chosen career, some get a considerable signing bonus, but to come close to a dream and financial rewards of that dream has to be tough (that is the emotional context).

I'm not sure what you're arguing here.  I don't think anyone is saying these guys are disposable player cards.

 

[sportsfan8703]

This group struck out 55 times in 200 PA.  Only 3 XBH.  Overmatched or disservice?

 

[emmett16]

16 hours ago, RZNJ said:

It’s a tough profession.  You don’t get a participation trophy.  Stowers has gotten 121 PA and produced subpar offensive numbers and fringy defense.   It would be interesting to see what he could do with 500 AB but ML teams, excluding the A’s, aren’t in the habit of giving guys chances for the heck of it.   Which teams are beating down our door to get their hands on Kyle Stowers?   

People are also casually forgetting that he was injured for a good portion of the year.  Avg. MLB debut age is 25+ He will be playing next year at 26 and debuted at 24.  I'd say he fits right in with that average.  What has he done to merit a position?  he's a good player, but he has flaws that have been exposed.    Professional athletics is a meat market.  There is nothing fair about it nor will there ever be.  There are 780 jobs available for 10s of thousands of people from all over the globe.  If you decide to take your shot at it, you know what you are getting into.  You put you head down and do everything in your power to improve yourself and get better and let the cards fall where they may.  The second someone gets a 'chance' because it's 'only fair' then the entire system of pure competition is compromised.   As far as I know, other teams haven't been knocking down the door to acquire Kyle Stowers.  Maybe they are and Elias just hates him and doesn't want him to make any money, but I find that hard to believe.  

[Moose Milligan]

Oh great, we're delving down the rabbit hole of whether or not Kyle Stowers has had a fair chance.  

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

This group struck out 55 times in 200 PA.  Only 3 XBH.  Overmatched or disservice?

 

Not enough major league exposure to conclude overmatched.  But I’m not ready to say disservice, either.  

Players getting blocked is hardly a new phenomenon.  Jim Gentile was in the minors in 1952, got cups of coffee in 1957 and 1958 and never got a real chance until he got to the Orioles in 1960 and finished second in the rookie of the year voting at age 26.   The next season he hit 46 homers with 141 RBI.
 

[emmett16]

19 hours ago, AlbNYfan said:

I feel it's a "travesty" for any Mil player stuck in an organization and can't get a chance because of its depth. The clock is always ticking for these young men. Lack of service time, arbitration eligibility can cost a young player millions, even though he is not a star. Deal them, give them a chance. 

When a player doesn't get a chance because the players ahead of him are better that is a 'travesty'?

What do you call it when an applicant for a job is an ideal fit, has the proper skills & experience but does not get the job because of non-job related reasons?  

[btdart20]

58 minutes ago, AlbNYfan said:

You really equate the two?? I am not talking an emotional correlation...I am not talking recreational vs professional. I am talking about a short-term career and potentially a million dollar plus loss for every year he is denied at least a chance. Stowers is certainly not an isolated case. A guy like McKenna, who would likely be in same situation if in the Oriole's minors today, is a lucky guy (we let Yaz go????). I realize there is no easy solution (that's why I rooted for a guy like Watkins, that was ready to hang it up and his wife convinced to give it another chance). We often treat these guys like disposal player cards. They are not cards. Yes, it's a chosen career, some get a considerable signing bonus, but to come close to a dream and financial rewards of that dream has to be tough (that is the emotional context).

I do equate the two (like I've said for others, even if it's the direction not the degree).  You have to draw the line somewhere.  My line was drawn much earlier in my baseball "career" (when I didn't make it through the final cuts for HS JV).  I'm not saying the emotional impact for my scenario is anything compared to a guy who misses the 26- or 40-man rosters.  Only saying the line has to be drawn somewhere. 

For every one of those who "just missed" (fairly or unfairly), is there a guy who "just made it" (fairly or unfairly) and did get a disposable baseball card?

[sportsfan8703]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Not enough major league exposure to conclude overmatched.  But I’m not ready to say disservice, either.  

Players getting blocked is hardly a new phenomenon.  Jim Gentile was in the minors in 1952, got cups of coffee in 1957 and 1958 and never got a real chance until he got to the Orioles in 1960 and finished second in the rookie of the year voting at age 26.   The next season he hit 46 homers with 141 RBI.
 

Of course. Guys like David Newhan, Howie Clark, Chris Waters, Jose Mercedes, Miguel Gonzalez, etc…. Those guys were all like 28/29 and finally got there chance. Ortiz, Stowers, Norby, Vavra, and Cowser, are all like 23-25, and they got to the MLB last season. It’s not a travesty. 

[wildcard]

20 hours ago, RZNJ said:

It’s a tough profession.  You don’t get a participation trophy.  Stowers has gotten 121 PA and produced subpar offensive numbers and fringy defense.   It would be interesting to see what he could do with 500 AB but ML teams, excluding the A’s, aren’t in the habit of giving guys chances for the heck of it.   Which teams are beating down our door to get their hands on Kyle Stowers?   

It's too early for that.  I think the O's move him in late Jan/early Feb if he is not included in a package before that.

Edited December 12, 2023 by wildcard

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

It's too early for that.  I think the O's move him in late Jan/early Feb if he is not included in a package before that.

He has two options left.  I don’t think he has much trade value and I don’t think they move him just to move him.