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Jackson Holliday 2024

btdart20

By btdart20
in Orioles Talk

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DirtyBird
DirtyBird

If this thread was on the correct board, this never would have happened 

survivedc
survivedc

Can someone please get rid of this guy? Hasn’t he violated some rules or something? Not sure I remember another poster making this board this unenjoyable.

Tony-OH
Tony-OH

You have to give up something of quality to get quality. Absolutely Ortiz would be a plus defender at 2B and would be doing well "IF" the Orioles would have given him that chance. I think the Orioles

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G54377 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

G54377

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, interloper said:

Again, this isn't a thing. No team just lets a rookie struggle this badly for this long, even if they aren't impacting the game. You can take issue with history if you want, but Holliday will not have an infinite leash because that is simply not a thing. It is what it is. 

.... isn't that basically what I said?

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

This is the biggest motivation in sending him down if he continues to look bad imo.

Time flies.  Holliday is close to 172 service days already?

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Sanity Check Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Sanity Check

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1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea because we should always make proclamations after 30 at bats.  SMFH

You are quick to make proclamations about players before any at bats.  Look in the mirror, dude.  I'm sure I'm not the first one to think this, but you act like you're the smartest person on here at times and everybody else just doesn't have a clue.

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SilverRocket Major Leaguer

SilverRocket

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1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 I think sending him down is more of a ceremonial thing than something that will make a difference in his season and ultimately career.

Sending him down 1) takes away the full season of service time (the biggest reason), 2) might get the MLB team an extra win during the struggles (hasn't bit us yet but it easily could), and 3) if he needs larger adjustments like changing the leg kick, gives him a low leverage environment to experiment with that.

Do the Tides not have pitching machines that can replicate big league pitching? I do think staying here is best for purely development but I just don't think the difference is large enough to offset the other reasons.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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13 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

You are quick to make proclamations about players before any at bats.  Look in the mirror, dude.  I'm sure I'm not the first one to think this, but you act like you're the smartest person on here at times and everybody else just doesn't have a clue.

If the shoe fits…

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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9 minutes ago, SilverRocket said:

Sending him down 1) takes away the full season of service time (the biggest reason), 2) might get the MLB team an extra win during the struggles (hasn't bit us yet but it easily could), and 3) if he needs larger adjustments like changing the leg kick, gives him a low leverage environment to experiment with that.

Do the Tides not have pitching machines that can replicate big league pitching? I do think staying here is best for purely development but I just don't think the difference is large enough to offset the other reasons.

(Saying this is based on the idea he continues to look terrible numbers wise)

 

Sending him down to get back the service time makes sense to me although you also start to watch super 2 as well but that’s a different discussion.

I don’t think sending him down for development will make a difference. 
 

 

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FlaO'sFan Major Leaguer Rising Star

FlaO'sFan

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It's not going to bother me if he gets sent down, although I think whatever he needs to learn is better worked through at the ML level. If he goes back down he's just going to have to pick up his learning curve against ML pitchers when he comes back up. I would give him at least 100-150 at bats before possibly sending him back, though.

As far as the timing of his being called up, I remember what Buck said when asked if Manny was maybe called up too soon and wasn't ready, he said "you can't ruin the great ones", which I for the most part agree with.

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Billy F-Face3 Hangout Grand Counsel

Billy F-Face3

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1 hour ago, Sanity Check said:

Personally, I was tired of all of the garbage and prognosticating about how many more games we would win if Holliday was on the opening day roster, and how Elias was going to cost us a chance at the playoffs by not having the "best" team up here now.  The early struggles of a Henderson, Cowser, Stowers and Westburg weren't going to happen with this kid.  Think again.  Oh yeah, and Kjerstad is ready now......what's the definition of insanity?  You got it.

There were some who even suggested that Holliday would be the more natural shortstop for the organization with Gunnar being pushed to third base....and now, there are many who are somewhat critical that Jackson seems a bit tepid at 2B.  How the bloom has fallen off the rose......

I feel this too. And I think the reason for that problem was the media hype, which is what now was mentioning...

2 hours ago, now said:

True. I've never seen hype like that before from MLB.com. Seems like, all spring, two days out of every three, Holliday's picture featured on the front page with an article touting his otherworldly greatness. Has to weigh on the kid. Especially given he looks so much the part of "a boy among men."

 

People just believe what they're told too easily. Having good press doesn't mean you'll perform like the press says. There's alot more nuance to it.

I'm always in favor of patience calling a guy up. Then there gets to a point when guys like Westburg and Norby grind away in AAA for too long and you should absolutely call them up, because they've done their time and proven themselves with a large sample size. They've been seasoned.

16 games or whatever it was in AAA, is not enough for a 19 - 20 year old.

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

There is a difference between can’t learn and learning more at this level.

Holliday has rarely been challenged in the minors and he was always young and sometimes very young, for his level.

Im not opposed to sending him down although I would wait a little while longer but unless you feel he’s really getting damaged between the ears, I think sending him down is more of a ceremonial thing than something that will make a difference in his season and ultimately career.

I just feel he’s at the level of his development where learning at this level is better for him.

So when I say he has nothing left to prove, that’s kind of what I mean. Yea, in the literal sense he doesn’t have much to prove but he’s so advanced that he stands to better off up here imo.

But if he continues to look bad and guessing at pitches than maybe all he needs is the mental reset and I think that’s all sending him down will truly accomplish.

That's fine.  That's a take with the appropriate amount of subtlety.

The silly rhetorical questions, "How can he learn to hit ML pitching in AAA?" devised to produce a foregone conclusion have no such subtlety. 

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