Jackson Holliday 2024

[DrungoHazewood]

15 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

John Wockenfuss had one of the strangest stances. He used to have both feet facing away from the pitcher. 

Yep. Dan Ford was similar, but he wasn't so far back in the box, and his feet were spread out more.

[Frobby]

 

[Tony-OH]

49 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yep. Dan Ford was similar, but he wasn't so far back in the box, and his feet were spread out more.

I believe Dan Ford just had his front foot back like that , but extremely closed.

I remember batting like that once in Little League because of that and hit one on the longest home runs I ever hit at that age. Then, I made a couple of outs and ditched it to more of a regular stance. haha....

Anyways, as for Jackson Holliday stance, legs kicks work for some and not for others. The key is to get it down in time and being able to pick up spin and movement early enough. To me, Holliday just got behind in too many counts because of some great pitches on the edges of the strikezone. 

I'm not a swing expert, but I've seen the kid hit well against all types of pitches including velocity so i think he's going to be just fine.

He's gotten on base a lot more down in AAA where the automated strike zone helps him with his great eye, but hasn't hot for much average or power since going back down (.242./432./364./795 with a 11-9 BB to K in 44 PAs. The Ks are still a bit high in AAA. 

He just needs more seasoning. 

[Otter]

26 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I believe Dan Ford just had his front foot back like that , but extremely closed.

I remember batting like that once in Little League because of that and hit one on the longest home runs I ever hit at that age. Then, I made a couple of outs and ditched it to more of a regular stance. haha....

Anyways, as for Jackson Holliday stance, legs kicks work for some and not for others. The key is to get it down in time and being able to pick up spin and movement early enough. To me, Holliday just got behind in too many counts because of some great pitches on the edges of the strikezone. 

I'm not a swing expert, but I've seen the kid hit well against all types of pitches including velocity so i think he's going to be just fine.

He's gotten on base a lot more down in AAA where the automated strike zone helps him with his great eye, but hasn't hot for much average or power since going back down (.242./432./364./795 with a 11-9 BB to K in 44 PAs. The Ks are still a bit high in AAA. 

He just needs more seasoning. 

I think you make an important point about the automated strike zone in the minors helping Holliday.  It seems in the past year I've noticed that rookies with excellent plate discipline seem to get affected much more by the wandering zones of certain MLB umpires.  They seem to know the zone better than the umpires and have been rewarded for that in the minors.  We saw last year that Henderson struggled at first even though he was still walking, and then got hot when he became much more aggressive early in the count and not letting himself fall behind.  I noticed it with Cowser last year, and with Holliday this year.  They seem utterly perplexed when umps call pitches three inches off the corner.

[Oriolesfan1988]

12 minutes ago, Otter said:

I think you make an important point about the automated strike zone in the minors helping Holliday.  It seems in the past year I've noticed that rookies with excellent plate discipline seem to get affected much more by the wandering zones of certain MLB umpires.  They seem to know the zone better than the umpires and have been rewarded for that in the minors.  We saw last year that Henderson struggled at first even though he was still walking, and then got hot when he became much more aggressive early in the count and not letting himself fall behind.  I noticed it with Cowser last year, and with Holliday this year.  They seem utterly perplexed when umps call pitches three inches off the corner.

Gotta start sending these kids to CB Bucknor and Hernandez simulator or make them read Hernandez's art of the strike zone book that all bad umpires consult. 

[Tony-OH]

58 minutes ago, Otter said:

I think you make an important point about the automated strike zone in the minors helping Holliday.  It seems in the past year I've noticed that rookies with excellent plate discipline seem to get affected much more by the wandering zones of certain MLB umpires.  They seem to know the zone better than the umpires and have been rewarded for that in the minors.  We saw last year that Henderson struggled at first even though he was still walking, and then got hot when he became much more aggressive early in the count and not letting himself fall behind.  I noticed it with Cowser last year, and with Holliday this year.  They seem utterly perplexed when umps call pitches three inches off the corner.

I do think part of the problem of Orioles trained hitters when they arrive in the majors are the "wandering" strike zones of major league umpires. The Orioles minor league hitters are awarded positive scores for an at bat even when they are called out on strikes that are not really strikes. 

They are trained to not swing at pitches that they can't do damage on so they typically don't attack many pitches off the zone or near the edges unless they were fooled by the pitch. 

When they get to the majors, they have that same approach. Adley, Gunnar, Cowser, and Holliday all struggled at times by getting behind in counts and having to hit 1-2 or 0-2 too often, many times due to close pitches that were out of the zone getting called strikes. Westburg seemed to make the adjustments the best by cutting down his swing and going for contact over power initially. His power numbers were not good last year, but now he's made the adjustments and can now let it rip.

 

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I do think part of the problem of Orioles trained hitters when they arrive in the majors are the "wandering" strike zones of major league umpires. The Orioles minor league hitters are awarded positive scores for an at bat even when they are called out on strikes that are not really strikes. 

They are trained to not swing at pitches that they can't do damage on so they typically don't attack many pitches off the zone or near the edges unless they were fooled by the pitch. 

When they get to the majors, they have that same approach. Adley, Gunnar, Cowser, and Holliday all struggled at times by getting behind in counts and having to hit 1-2 or 0-2 too often, many times due to close pitches that were out of the zone getting called strikes. Westburg seemed to make the adjustments the best by cutting down his swing and going for contact over power initially. His power numbers were not good last year, but now he's made the adjustments and can now let it rip.

 

Great insights.  We've seen the same thing happen with all of our recent prospects.  Hopefully, this winning will let our batters start getting some respect on their names with the umps.  I like how none of them really argue, and last night O'Hearn sort of took one for the team/youngins.  I like Hyde.  Great manager, but maybe he needs to be a little more vocal with these umps.  We've done the nice guy act.  Now it's time to win when everyone is gunning for us.  

[Sports Guy]

 

[LookinUp]

22 hours ago, Frobby said:

I would not expect a player who’s been as successful as Holliday to start overhauling his mechanics based on a couple of bad weeks in his major league debut.  

I'm kind of torn on this. A lot of slumps happen just because timing is off, nothing mechanical. Sometimes you're hot and sometimes you're cold. It's easily possible that Holliday's feel for hitting just had a slump at the wrong time. That happens.

I know a hitting coach who talks about Pujols. When he went into a slump, he'd widen his stance and not even step. He removed all of that movement and basically hit with his hands and ungodly power. It was basically the same 2-strike approach that a lot of hitters employ.

For my money, I don't love the huge load and leg kick. I think it really lengthens the swing in an attempt to generate power. When I saw Holliday, his swing looked just like that. Too long to catch up to elite ML pitching. Now maybe it was just a slump, but I'd personally prefer to see less movement, more contact, and progress from contact to power as he gets comfortable in the majors.

And I know nothing, but that's my view of things. 

[emmett16]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I believe Dan Ford just had his front foot back like that , but extremely closed.

I remember batting like that once in Little League because of that and hit one on the longest home runs I ever hit at that age. Then, I made a couple of outs and ditched it to more of a regular stance. haha....

Anyways, as for Jackson Holliday stance, legs kicks work for some and not for others. The key is to get it down in time and being able to pick up spin and movement early enough. To me, Holliday just got behind in too many counts because of some great pitches on the edges of the strikezone. 

I'm not a swing expert, but I've seen the kid hit well against all types of pitches including velocity so i think he's going to be just fine.

He's gotten on base a lot more down in AAA where the automated strike zone helps him with his great eye, but hasn't hot for much average or power since going back down (.242./432./364./795 with a 11-9 BB to K in 44 PAs. The Ks are still a bit high in AAA. 

He just needs more seasoning. 

This is how I see it.  I question his swing decisions more so than his mechanics.  He was absolutely pitched to and fell behind in what felt like every AB.  It seemed like everyone  threw absolutely perfect pitches and he didn’t get many breaks with calls.  I think he will build off the experience and hit the ground running next time.  

[emmett16]

20 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

John Wockenfuss had one of the strangest stances. He used to have both feet facing away from the pitcher. 

Looks a lot like Tettleton but not as much “bat hug”.  

[sportsfan8703]

10 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

This is how I see it.  I question his swing decisions more so than his mechanics.  He was absolutely pitched to and fell behind in what felt like every AB.  It seemed like everyone  threw absolutely perfect pitches and he didn’t get many breaks with calls.  I think he will build off the experience and hit the ground running next time.  

Spot on.  We're also getting everyone's best shot this year, and I'm sure pitcher's didn't want a 21 year old teeing off on them.  So that little bit of competitive extra motivation means alot at this level.  He wasn't flying under the radar in the 9th spot.  

With that said, would he see better pitches hitting 2nd in between Gunnar and Adley?  Pitchers wont have that luxury of facing him at the bottom of the lineup where they can drop in their ungodly breaking stuff on the corners.  

Edited May 8 by sportsfan8703

[DenPA2002]

Kid is heating up the last few night moving in the right direction.

Keep it up.

[Sports Guy]

 

[SteveA]

On 5/7/2024 at 4:37 PM, Tony-OH said:

John Wockenfuss had one of the strangest stances. He used to have both feet facing away from the pitcher. 

And didn't he also do something with his fingers that was unusual?   Like twiddling them constantly while awaiting the pitch instead of just gripping the bat steadily with them?