Jackson Holliday 2024

[btdart20]

7 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

To me, Holliday was the superstar, once in a generation prospect blazing through the minors in 2023. He had a decent spring, was good in AAA, then crapped the bed in the majors. I think he's dropped down a rung or two and now he's not the superstar prospect anymore. That means he's going to get the same level of seasoning in AAA that a lot of the other prospects have gotten. I don't think Elias & Co. want to see him come up again and need to be sent back down.

Instead of a "laughable" passive-aggressive response that stirs up board trouble, I'd frame it as: 

Holliday is still a superstar prospect.  But still a prospect.  The last sentence is true of every prospect.  Maybe more for a superstar prospect.

[dystopia]

14 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

To me, Holliday was the superstar, once in a generation prospect blazing through the minors in 2023. He had a decent spring, was good in AAA, then crapped the bed in the majors. I think he's dropped down a rung or two and now he's not the superstar prospect anymore. That means he's going to get the same level of seasoning in AAA that a lot of the other prospects have gotten. I don't think Elias & Co. want to see him come up again and need to be sent back down.

This only makes sense if you thought he was the second coming of Babe Ruth and his short stint up here gave you a reality check. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, dystopia said:

This only makes sense if you thought he was the second coming of Babe Ruth and his short stint up here gave you a reality check. 

And even then, if you let 34 at bats drastically change your view on things, that’s really bad.

[spleen1015]

36 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No offense but this is laughable.

No offense taken.

Another thing that makes me think he'll stay in AAA is because there's no longer a glaring need for him in the majors. Mateo has been decent enough and I say that being someone who wanted no part of him being on the team this year. So, the combination of him not doing well the first time and the lack of need means he'll stay down longer. I said when he was sent down I didn't think we'd see him again until roster expansion, if at all this year.

[spleen1015]

35 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Instead of a "laughable" passive-aggressive response that stirs up board trouble, I'd frame it as: 

Holliday is still a superstar prospect.  But still a prospect.  The last sentence is true of every prospect.  Maybe more for a superstar prospect.

I'm not trying to be passive agressive nor am I trying to stir up board drama. I'm just sharing my opinion and it just so happens to be different.

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Greg Pappas said:

Regarding Mayo in RF; I 'd think that if the O's had any inkling that RF would be worth exploring, Mayo would be getting time there in Norfolk.  But he isn't.  I'd like to see it, but apparently the brass disagrees and are playing him (as always) mostly at 3B and some at 1B.  Mayo hasn't had a single rep in the outfield in his minors career.

But back to Holliday...

Only one question for you Greg.  Where does Mayo play on next year’s team?

Also, did you say he’s never had a rep in RF?   Then who is this guy?

 

[spleen1015]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Only one question for you Greg.  Where does Mayo play on next year’s team?

Also, did you say he’s never had a rep in RF?   Then who is this guy?

 

It's crazy that video evidence exists, yet this doesn't show up on his stats page. Maybe the stats page only counts starts at a position.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/coby-mayo-691723?stats=career-r-fielding-milb

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

It's crazy that video evidence exists, yet this doesn't show up on his stats page. Maybe the stats page only counts starts at a position.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/coby-mayo-691723?stats=career-r-fielding-milb

You won’t find it anywhere.  I never checked into it but my guess was that the game got rained out/suspended before 5 innings, was never completed and therefore the stats never became official.

The highlighted plays are in the 1st and 3rd innings.  Nothing after that.

Edited June 8 by RZNJ

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, spleen1015 said:

To me, Holliday was the superstar, once in a generation prospect blazing through the minors in 2023. He had a decent spring, was good in AAA, then crapped the bed in the majors. I think he's dropped down a rung or two and now he's not the superstar prospect anymore. That means he's going to get the same level of seasoning in AAA that a lot of the other prospects have gotten. I don't think Elias & Co. want to see him come up again and need to be sent back down.

Do you follow other teams and other top/elite prospects in MLB? 

I ask because the way that you spoke about Holliday seems to suggest that you are ignoring how comparable prospects like Jackson Churio (the number 2 prospect also 20 years old have done).

When you look at the list of 20 year old American born players who have succeeded first go round in the Big Leagues that list is handful short. 

As you have watched the year 2 improvements of Westburg and Cowser or the year 3 improvement of Stowers. All of whom are no where near the talent of Holliday. What are your thoughts regarding how adjustments/acclimating to the significant jump to the Majors might look like year 2 (second time) for Holliday? That he is not as good of a prospects as first believed?

[spleen1015]

16 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You won’t find it anywhere.  I never checked into it but my guess was that the game got rained out/suspended before 5 innings, was never completed and therefore the stats never became official.

The highlighted plays are in the 1st and 3rd innings.  Nothing after that.

According to the official box score, the RF that day was Cody Roberts. I wonder if whomever made the video was mistaken.

https://www.milb.com/gameday/baysox-vs-rubberducks/2022/08/14/673633/final/summary/all

[btdart20]

32 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

I'm not trying to be passive agressive nor am I trying to stir up board drama. I'm just sharing my opinion and it just so happens to be different.

Your take was fine.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

According to the official box score, the RF that day was Cody Roberts. I wonder if whomever made the video was mistaken.

https://www.milb.com/gameday/baysox-vs-rubberducks/2022/08/14/673633/final/summary/all

Looks like Mayo and the announcers refer to him as Mayo or Coby Mayo four times.

[spleen1015]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Looks like Mayo and the announcers refer to him as Mayo or Coby Mayo four times.

Maybe they were wrong. Who do you think would be more right? The announcers or the box score? It is definitely odd.

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

Maybe they were wrong. Who do you think would be more right? The announcers or the box score? It is definitely odd.

I don’t know but it sure looks like Mayo and the announcers refer to him as Mayo.  Cody Roberts was mainly a catcher.  I’ll see if I can get any video on him.

Cody?  Coby?   Hmmm .

Edited June 8 by RZNJ

[banks703]

19 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

As you have watched the year 2 improvements of Westburg and Cowser or the year 3 improvement of Stowers. All of whom are no where near the talent of Holliday. What are your thoughts regarding how adjustments/acclimating to the significant jump to the Majors might look like year 2 (second time) for Holliday? That he is not as good of a prospects as first believed?

I’m on record as being one of JH’s biggest critics (of his D) but I’d argue that I’ve been just as much an advocate of his offensive potential. Still, I don’t think that I would classify either of Westy or Cowser as being ‘nowhere near’ the talent of JH. Both CC and JW were pretty prolific offensive players in their ML careers and project to be really good major leaguers for a long time. 

Comparing them is tough but it might be a potential of Robbie Cano to Charlie Blackmon comparison for JH and CC and perhaps something like the potential of Cano to a poor man’s Chase Utley for JH and JW. JW’s defense is now and will always be a couple ticks above JH’s. I think that as complete players JH and JW are closer than some may see it.

JW and CC were damn good minor leaguers and have both shown major strides this year with A LOT more to go.

JH’s potential may be otherworldly but he’s got a long way to go still. I believe he’s going to become that Robbie Cano type of player but I also see the potential of both CC and JW long term.