Basallo for Miller y/n?

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Matt Weiters still rings traumatic in my mind. He had so much promise and was so good in the beginning. But like many catchers are at risk of, he got injured and fell off a proverbial cliff. He went from probably franchise catcher to has been basically overnight.

You can never have too many assets or insurance.

You see that's where you and I have a point of departure. I NEVER believe in making fear-based decisions that are informed by past pains/"traumas". You have to try to evaluate each decision as their own.

Matt Weiters has absolutely ZERO to do with Adley Rutschman, except that both played catcher for the Orioles. Totally different games/styles, strengths and weaknesses. Weiters had a much better throwing arm than Rutschman has. That's it. Not other attribute was better. Adley is smaller in size, a better athlete by far, and a superior hitter in EVERY way.

I also, don't agree with you take on assets. You can never have too many useful assets. It's better to have players that are acutally contributing to a championship (especially multiple championship runs) than it is to have insurance that you don't use for just in case scenarios.

What if Adley doesn't get hurt? What if Mayo moves to RF and Kjerstad to DH. Where does Basallo play? Are you going to move him to 1B and jettison Mountcastle? That's fine. But then what would be the plan to obtain the requisite pitching talent? Do we need to have all-star type players at all 9 positions and how much is having that worth sacrificing top pitching talent?

[Winter]

3 hours ago, Philip said:

Would you do that? A simple one for one?

I keep bouncing back and forth: a “exactly as designed” reliever, capable of at least a four out save, but only throwing 60 innings a season, with TJ forever looming on next week’s schedule, vs a stunning no-limits catching prospect who can’t even legally drink yet.

But who do we need NOW?

I think Oakland would do that trade, because Basallo’s clock can reasonably be delayed until 26, so his early years won’t be wasted.

What do you guys think?

no, Miller can be as good as he wants, the elbow or shoulder injury is going to come so no not trading a top hitting prospect for him 

[Explosivo]

Petition to have a separate trade forum for these types of discussions.

[Explosivo]

32 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

No knee jerk reaction here. Nor do I not appreciate the value/talent of Basallo.

I am not saying that the trade is a no brainer. I would prefer to give up less for Miller if possible. But I am not going to pretend like it's not a serious discussion worth having.

Having Miller this season makes us odds on World Series favorites. Having Miller next season WITH Bautista makes us odds on World Series favorites. Meanwhile, our offense will be elite with or without Basallo both now and in the future.

I am sorry if this is upsetting that this is a serious thing to consider. The present now matters just as much as the future because championships are the goal now.

No, the window is more important than just one year. Ten years vs. 1-2

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Explosivo said:

No, the window is more important than just one year. Ten years vs. 1-2

A Miller move would be for more than one or two years even if you are factoring in a TJ surgery.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

No, the window is more important than just one year. Ten years vs. 1-2

Um... Trading Basallo doesn't shorten our window to 1-2 years. What will shorten our window of being the best team in baseball is if we go cheap and don't extend superstars like Adley/Gunnar/Holliday. OR if those who we choose to extend suffer injuries and are never the same level ballplayers.

I don't see a realistic scenario where loosing one of Basallo/Mayo/Kjerstad shortens our window.

[interloper]

14 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Matt Weiters still rings traumatic in my mind. He had so much promise and was so good in the beginning. But like many catchers are at risk of, he got injured and fell off a proverbial cliff. He went from probably franchise catcher to has been basically overnight.

You can never have too many assets or insurance.

Wieters*

In all seriousness, I always feel obliged to defend the guy. He had 4 AS appearances, 2 gold gloves, and played for parts of 12 seasons in the big leagues with 8 straight years of positive WAR. Now, yes, 14.5 of his career 18.3 WAR was accumulated in his first 5 years, BUT... he was a solid player for us. 

Adley should trounce his career WAR, though, and looks more like how we thought Wieters would look. 

 

[Explosivo]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Um... Trading Basallo doesn't shorten our window to 1-2 years. What will shorten our window of being the best team in baseball is if we go cheap and don't extend superstars like Adley/Gunnar/Holliday. OR if those who we choose to extend suffer injuries and are never the same level ballplayers.

I don't see a realistic scenario where loosing one of Basallo/Mayo/Kjerstad shortens our window.

Um taking out the heir apparent at catcher behind Adley would definitely shorten the window. I get that Miller is the flavor of the month, but if you look at analytics, you’d realize, while he is good, how much better is he than the next guy? Versus a premier position at catcher for the next 5-7 years? Well, that’s a no brainer for me. But we can agree to disagree!

[frankwhite]

Nope, not for a reliever. If we trade Basallo, I'd rather get a starter out of it. 

[Fiver6565]

Basallo isn't getting traded anywhere for anyone, IMO.  He's the face of the all-new international facility and plan, and they will want him putting up numbers on the O's, not elsewhere, to keep pushing how far they've come on that.

I also think his talent alone is reason not to trade him, but this is a legit reason as well.

[potota_bread]

Bryce Miller? Yes. Your Miller? No

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Explosivo said:

Um taking out the heir apparent at catcher behind Adley would definitely shorten the window. I get that Miller is the flavor of the month, but if you look at analytics, you’d realize, while he is good, how much better is he than the next guy? Versus a premier position at catcher for the next 5-7 years? Well, that’s a no brainer for me. But we can agree to disagree!

If you plan to replace Adley then sure Basallo is heir apparent. But if not then what? Let's say you trade Basallo and don't resign Adley (for some strange reason) and let's say Creed Willems is your catcher one day (who is not as good as either) or you have to sign an FA catcher who is league averagish. Won't the offense still be elite?

And no, I don't need analytics to tell me that Miller is more than "the flavor of the month". I've been watching baseball and the Orioles since 88' and am very astute on the history of the game. I can see with my eyes 102/103 with good command is going to work out really well. I saw how he made Soto and Henderson look (some of the best hitters in the game).

Who is "the next guy" Clase? Or are we talking about the next late inning reliever who will be available? It depends. Either way, Miller is on Bautista's level in terms of special. There are not many who can do what Miller does and he has 5 years of control beyond this season.

[Bemorewins]

10 minutes ago, potota_bread said:

Bryce Miller? Yes. Your Miller? No

Either Miller works for me...lol

[Billy F-Face3]

If Ortiz can get you an ace, Basallo certainly can. And does anyone legitimately think the odds of resigning Burnes are very high? 

I'm hopeful to try to resign Burnes but I rationally don't expect him to be here next season, which means some of those assets some are suggesting we trade to get out of the logjam are probably going to be needed as ammunition for more valuable (starting) pitching in the near future. 

Or maybe Povich, McDermott, and Johnson can prove themselves and fill that looming void.

[Bemorewins]

9 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

If Ortiz can get you an ace, Basallo certainly can. And does anyone legitimately think the odds of resigning Burnes are very high? 

I'm hopeful to try to resign Burnes but I rationally don't expect him to be here next season, which means some of those assets some are suggesting we trade to get out of the logjam are probably going to be needed as ammunition for more valuable (starting) pitching in the near future. 

Or maybe Povich, McDermott, and Johnson can prove themselves and fill that looming void.

That ace only had one year of control. That is not an effective repeatable strategy for prospect management.

I don’t think the odds are great of us resigning Burnes. Especially with Gunnar and Adley’s extensions to do. 

No, the best of Povich, McDermott, and Johnson combined cannot fill the void of Corbin Burnes. Not in the same class talent wise.