AAA Catcher Comps - Hunt vs. Handley

[CHIP]

Baumann and Perez were traded for Blake Hunt on May 22nd and Hunt was activated and assigned to AAA Norfolk on May 23rd.  I did a comparison in the trade topic on Orioles Talk page on May 24th.  I have posted it below.  I thought a new topic to compare the two (the good, the bad & the ugly) without cross referencing our existing MLB Catchers or lower level prospects.   Here we can do more of a head to head tracking as this is now a somewhat interesting topic as McCann's future is unknown and Basallo is likely not making the MLB team this year...  so we can compare what we have at the AAA level and who is positioning themselves as the back up catcher (at this time without any trades).  

[CHIP]

From May 24th:

Comparing Hunt and Handley there are 'pieces' that can be pulled from both as positives and negatives.  Two different style catchers for sure and two very different paths.

Age:  Handley is 8 months older than Hunt.  3/10/98 vs. 11/10/98

Draft:  Hunt got $1.6M out of HS.  Handley went to Stanford and got $250K.  Hunt is now in his 4th professional organization.  Drafted by SDP (6/17), traded to TBR (12/20), traded to SEA (11/23), traded to BAL (5/24).  Handley drafted by BAL in 2019.  Only other catcher still in the BAL system since his draft is Adley.   Value becomes perspective.

Size:  Hunt is 6'4" 215# while Handley is 5'10" 205#.  Both players are hit/throw R/R.  Hunt has the projectable size over Handley without a doubt.

For the comparisons below, I am going to 'trim' the statistics to 2021 and later.  Handley was in college and short season in '19.  Hunt was in rookie, short season and low A thru '19.  These are development years for both and not really comparable (my opinion) as it waters down the 'same' timeframes/levels.  I have done my best to equally balance the data for an neutral comparison.

Since 2021, both players have been in High A and above.  Hunt has played 248 Games with 989 PA.   Handley has played 245 Games with 958 PA.

A+ Games:  Hunt 59, Handley 60

AA Games:  Hunt 135, Handley 82

AAA Games:  Hunt 54, Handley 103

SPEED:  Hunt has  a total of 5 SB.  1 in A+ and 4 in AA.   Handley has a total of 30 SB.  12 in A+, 7 in AA, 11 in AAA.  

BB Rate:  Hunt 7.9% in AA and 6.6% in AAA.  Handley 11.7% in AA and 14% in AAA.  

K Rate:  Hunt 25.6% in AA & 15.6% in AAA.  Handley 22.2% in AA and 17% in AAA

HITTING:  In AA, Hunt was .232/.310/.364/.674 and Handley was .237/.351/.423/.774.  AAA is a bit different but sample set isn't quite the same.  Hunt .275/.340/.524/.863 and Handley was .243/.373/.362/.735.  

DEFENSE:  Hunt has caught 220 games (1904.1 innings).  Handley has caught 212 games (1805 innings).  Hunt has caught 56 of 252 runners (22%).  Handley has caught 81 of 198 runners (41%).  But since the new pick off rules, etc.  In AAA, Hunt has caught 5 of 35 (14%) and Handley has caught 17 of 50 (34%).  Passed Balls are Hunt 17 and Handley 18.

Overall, it is my opinion, that Hunt's ranking in Seattle's system doesn't push him over Handley in the O's system.  Handley has more experience with the O's staff and AAA ball in general.  Stats between PCL and IL are not created equal.  

Biggest advantage Hunt has is physical size and already coming in on O's 40 man roster. 

Outside of this... pending no injuries at MLB level, the Tide are playing Braves (Gwinnett) next week and Yankees (Scranton) the following week.  Seeing when Hunt comes in and how the O's divide playing time as Handley was getting 4/6 games per week will show a lot.  How Hunt/Handley are taking the competition and how the O's are setting up the comparable game time.  Will they be doing a 50/50 catching split or giving one or the other more time at C?  With our other prospects, we do not have a lot of DH time available and neither Hunt or Handley play 1B. 

[CHIP]

As a reminder, my son was a catcher and played until his HS junior year.  He loves the game and also has Asperger's... so he has a gift and he compiles the stats for me and I then get to go thru what we talk about here on the board. (he is actually going to get to do this in college next year also).

We have the overall stats and we have the head to head stats.  I have been able to watch these games from the archive and get to the plays/ABs with Handley and Hunt so this is more about the head to head stats..

This is a small sample size but we have to start somewhere...

Handley has played in 3 games, Hunt has played in 2 games.

Handley was 4-14 with 1 BB, 3 K, 1 SB, 2 RBI, stole a base offensively, and had 2 caught stealing defensively.

Hunt was 2-9 with 1 HR, 4 K, 1 RBI, and defensively had 3 SB vs 1 CS.

The HR has given Hunt the SLG advantage.  Handley as usual has a good AVG and OBP with low K rate. 

Handley laid down on nice bunt 1B on 5/23 but at the same time has top 5 EVs of 104.1, 103, 102, 100.5, & 91.9.  Hunt's top 5 EVs are 103.8, 103.5, 99.6, 92.6 & 88.5.

Handley seems steady and doing what he has done all year.  We have noticed a significant change in bat path from last year to this year.

Hunt in his SSS seems to be a very different hitter.  He is watching a lot of pitches that are on the middle of the plate and chasing a lot of pitches off the plate.  This really happened yesterday.  It is early so he may be pressing with his new team.

Defensively... Hunt receives well (in my opinion) but when the ball is moving and not where he is set up, he seems to have trouble moving to catch/block the ball.  These pitchers are all new to him so this could be some unfamiliarity and currently gets the benefit of the doubt.  Gwinnett seemed to run on him freely as there were 5 attempts yesterday (1 was a double steal that he got the guy at 2nd so other SB didn't count).  

Norfolk posted a strike em out throw em out of the 5/24 game which wasn't actually a throw em out as there were 2 outs when the strike out happened. His actual CS earlier in the game was even better.  You can also see Handley calling the pickoffs and keeping runners close even with Hoffman and Charles pitching.

 

[Tony-OH]

Nice job in the comparisons. I need to see more of Hunt before making any definitive statements. To me they are very similar profiles in the sense that they are both probably backup catchers at best in the majors. Handley certainly throws better, and Hunt has more power. The rest I will need to see by watching Hunt behind the dish.

[Osornot]

On 5/29/2024 at 11:19 AM, CHIP said:

As a reminder, my son was a catcher and played until his HS junior year.  He loves the game and also has Asperger's... so he has a gift and he compiles the stats for me and I then get to go thru what we talk about here on the board. (he is actually going to get to do this in college next year also).

We have the overall stats and we have the head to head stats.  I have been able to watch these games from the archive and get to the plays/ABs with Handley and Hunt so this is more about the head to head stats..

This is a small sample size but we have to start somewhere...

Handley has played in 3 games, Hunt has played in 2 games.

Handley was 4-14 with 1 BB, 3 K, 1 SB, 2 RBI, stole a base offensively, and had 2 caught stealing defensively.

Hunt was 2-9 with 1 HR, 4 K, 1 RBI, and defensively had 3 SB vs 1 CS.

The HR has given Hunt the SLG advantage.  Handley as usual has a good AVG and OBP with low K rate. 

Handley laid down on nice bunt 1B on 5/23 but at the same time has top 5 EVs of 104.1, 103, 102, 100.5, & 91.9.  Hunt's top 5 EVs are 103.8, 103.5, 99.6, 92.6 & 88.5.

Handley seems steady and doing what he has done all year.  We have noticed a significant change in bat path from last year to this year.

Hunt in his SSS seems to be a very different hitter.  He is watching a lot of pitches that are on the middle of the plate and chasing a lot of pitches off the plate.  This really happened yesterday.  It is early so he may be pressing with his new team.

Defensively... Hunt receives well (in my opinion) but when the ball is moving and not where he is set up, he seems to have trouble moving to catch/block the ball.  These pitchers are all new to him so this could be some unfamiliarity and currently gets the benefit of the doubt.  Gwinnett seemed to run on him freely as there were 5 attempts yesterday (1 was a double steal that he got the guy at 2nd so other SB didn't count).  

Norfolk posted a strike em out throw em out of the 5/24 game which wasn't actually a throw em out as there were 2 outs when the strike out happened. His actual CS earlier in the game was even better.  You can also see Handley calling the pickoffs and keeping runners close even with Hoffman and Charles pitching.

 

Thank you and your son! Excellent!

[survivedc]

This is really great stuff, and I’m sure fun for you and your son to work on together. 
 

Looking forward to seeing how the PT shakes out.

[CHIP]

22 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Nice job in the comparisons. I need to see more of Hunt before making any definitive statements. To me they are very similar profiles in the sense that they are both probably backup catchers at best in the majors. Handley certainly throws better, and Hunt has more power. The rest I will need to see by watching Hunt behind the dish.

This, on paper, seems to be the first 'competition' at the catcher position at the same level in a few years (age/skill).  I have to go thru the game video but on paper this week so far has been bad for both catchers against Gwinnett... but also offensively most of the team has struggled this week.  But I don't just like to look at the box score.  I want to see the ABs, swings/not swings, throw downs (slow POP or slow delivery by P, etc), game calling, body language, etc.

[CHIP]

I don't know why... but Norfolk just can't seem to play well at home this year.  Of the 6 games vs. Gwinnet, the team went 2-4.  With Hunt catching, they were 0-3.  With Handley, they were 2-1.  The biggest difference I saw was Handley's ability to block the ball and control the running game more.  Gwinnet was/is one of the top teams in the IL in stolen base attempts.  Handley had more CS and he also had a PO.  During the 6/29 game, Handley's pitchers (Young and Strowd) both had POs over at 1B.  If you watch, you can see Handley call the PO and then punch his glove.  At that time, the pitcher throws over.  It didn't win that game... but it kept it closer.

From an offensive perspective... as a whole, the team was awful (excluding Holliday).  167 AB's and only 29 hits.  A team average of  0.165.  If you take away Holliday's 7-17, the team avg was only 0.138.   For the Catchers, Handley hit in 4 games (1 @ DH) he his 2-14 (0.143) with a double.  4 K and 1 BB.  Hunt was 0-11 with 5 K and 0 BB.  

Hunt's numbers don't seem to be carrying over from the PCL league... at least not early on.  It seems he likes to chase the low and outside pitch while watching those right down the middle of the plate.  He just looks to be 'over' trying for power.

Handley had some good contact but hard hit right at people.  He did struggle with the Knuckle Ball pitcher on Friday.

Still, 1 week and a game in is too early and too small of a sample size but right now, overall Handley is playing better defensively and offensively.  Hunt's lone bright spot was a HR ball on a new pitcher in his first game the week before.

[OriolesMagic83]

4 hours ago, CHIP said:

I don't know why... but Norfolk just can't seem to play well at home this year.  Of the 6 games vs. Gwinnet, the team went 2-4.  With Hunt catching, they were 0-3.  With Handley, they were 2-1.  The biggest difference I saw was Handley's ability to block the ball and control the running game more.  Gwinnet was/is one of the top teams in the IL in stolen base attempts.  Handley had more CS and he also had a PO.  During the 6/29 game, Handley's pitchers (Young and Strowd) both had POs over at 1B.  If you watch, you can see Handley call the PO and then punch his glove.  At that time, the pitcher throws over.  It didn't win that game... but it kept it closer.

From an offensive perspective... as a whole, the team was awful (excluding Holliday).  167 AB's and only 29 hits.  A team average of  0.165.  If you take away Holliday's 7-17, the team avg was only 0.138.   For the Catchers, Handley hit in 4 games (1 @ DH) he his 2-14 (0.143) with a double.  4 K and 1 BB.  Hunt was 0-11 with 5 K and 0 BB.  

Hunt's numbers don't seem to be carrying over from the PCL league... at least not early on.  It seems he likes to chase the low and outside pitch while watching those right down the middle of the plate.  He just looks to be 'over' trying for power.

Handley had some good contact but hard hit right at people.  He did struggle with the Knuckle Ball pitcher on Friday.

Still, 1 week and a game in is too early and too small of a sample size but right now, overall Handley is playing better defensively and offensively.  Hunt's lone bright spot was a HR ball on a new pitcher in his first game the week before.

Don't you think having a catcher who is better at throwing out base stealers could have a calming influence on the pitchers.  I don't know if that's something you noticed?  A pitcher who is paired with a catcher who can't keep run game under control might have most of his attention on the runners on base instead of the hitter at the plate.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

Handley was placed on the injured list today due to a concussion, stemming from taking a foul tip to the mask yesterday and being removed from the game.

[CHIP]

On 6/8/2024 at 6:51 PM, Legend_Of_Joey said:

Handley was placed on the injured list today due to a concussion, stemming from taking a foul tip to the mask yesterday and being removed from the game.

I went back and watched that series of events.  94 mph fastball tipped and stuck in the mask.  So 100% of that force was absorbed by the mask/helmet/head.  He casually pulled it from the mask and they had him start using Hunt's cap/mask.  Everything seemed okay in the 3rd and 4th after that.  Including him catching a pop up behind home.  In the top of 5, he looked fine hitting as he smacked a hit to LF and ran to first.  It was an obvious single but after he rounded first you can see him shaking his head at the 1B coach in disappointment.  Few seconds and Buck Briton is sprinting from 3B coaches box across the field and he and the 1B coach are trying to keep him standing upright as they walk to the bench.  Trainer comes out and helps him further.  

This was not as scary as Payton Henry (Toronto AAA catcher in Buffalo) who just a week before took a bat (follow thru) to the base of his skull where it connects to the neck.  He went down immediately and within seconds started to shake/sieze.  Cameras panned away until he was on a backboard being carted off the field.  Taken to the hospital and released the next day.

Handley uses the Hockey Style.  Henry uses the traditional cap/mask.  They say the Hockey is less forgiving on the foul tips but protects the head better from the bat.  The traditional is better on foul tips but not so much against the bat.

Hoping Handley and Henry recover quickly and safely

 

[Legend_Of_Joey]

5 minutes ago, CHIP said:

I went back and watched that series of events.  94 mph fastball tipped and stuck in the mask.  So 100% of that force was absorbed by the mask/helmet/head.  He casually pulled it from the mask and they had him start using Hunt's cap/mask.  Everything seemed okay in the 3rd and 4th after that.  Including him catching a pop up behind home.  In the top of 5, he looked fine hitting as he smacked a hit to LF and ran to first.  It was an obvious single but after he rounded first you can see him shaking his head at the 1B coach in disappointment.  Few seconds and Buck Briton is sprinting from 3B coaches box across the field and he and the 1B coach are trying to keep him standing upright as they walk to the bench.  Trainer comes out and helps him further.  

This was not as scary as Payton Henry (Toronto AAA catcher in Buffalo) who just a week before took a bat (follow thru) to the base of his skull where it connects to the neck.  He went down immediately and within seconds started to shake/sieze.  Cameras panned away until he was on a backboard being carted off the field.  Taken to the hospital and released the next day.

Handley uses the Hockey Style.  Henry uses the traditional cap/mask.  They say the Hockey is less forgiving on the foul tips but protects the head better from the bat.  The traditional is better on foul tips but not so much against the bat.

Hoping Handley and Henry recover quickly and safely

 

Thanks for the clarification. Was going based on what was reported on the sequence of events.

That series sounds a lot scarier than what was reported. Hoping both can bounce back quickly and has no lingering effects.

[CHIP]

Handley has been on IL since 6/8/24.  As of this morning, no idea if he will be returning to action after 1 week or if it is going to be time.  Only time will tell...  But the O's decided to give Banuelos a break from the taxi squad yesterday.  Am I reading into something?  Sure, but isn't that what we do here?

However...  this week off of Handley vs. Hunt has given my son and I some more time to look at Hunt's 2024 history.  (I still think this is a SSS (small sample size) but since some on this board rejoice over 1 week of good performance  I'm going the other direction... bad performance.)

As a precursor, I'm starting to think the O's fans need to brace for "something is better than nothing" when it comes to Hunt.  But what exactly is the "something" as it comes to Hunt for Baumann/Perez trade.  I believe it is also looking that we got "April Fooled" even acknowledging the SSS.

Hunt's April stats with Tacoma (SEA):

12 games, 42 PA, 37 AB, 14 H, 2-2B, 1-3B, 2-HR, 2 HBP, 3 BB and only 4 K.   .378/.452/.649 for a 1.101 OPS  

These stats would have OH screaming for Hunt over McCann.  This seems to have been the opinion when the trade first happened with Mariner fans as they were wanting hunt moved up to SEA.

Since then...  well...  April shower's bring May flowers and maybe we got a carnation.

11 more games with Tacoma before the trade. 

38 PA, 33 AB, 7H, 2-2B, 2 HR, 2 HBP, 2 BB, 4K.     .212/.308/.455 for a 0.763

now... the O's would have seen this as well... but the average over his 24 games before coming to the Tide wasn't bad.  .293/.372/.533 with .905 OPS.  This was still attention getting for sure.  But would the O's and OH posters have liked this trade based on just his May numbers?

So... let's break down the 24 games with Tacoma vs. 12 games with Norfolk using some of Fangraphs stats/metrics:

The 'highlight' and literally this is the ONLY highlight I can find.  (There is a 'candle' light as well)

HIGHLIGHT:  In 12 games with Tides, Hunt has 3 HR (1:16 PA).  He only had 4 with Tacoma in 24 games (1:19 PA)

CANDLELIGHT:  3 of 15 runners caught (20% for Norfolk) vs. 2 of 18 runners caught (11.1% for Tacoma).  But hey, this is an 80% increase!

Here are some of the shadow numbers that 'fans' really don't want to look at because it flies into the face of 'HOPE' 

Hunt's AAA wRC+ while with SEA in 2024 was 121.  Hunt's AAAA wRC+ while with BAL is.... 46.    Ooooffff.

Hunt's BB & K rate while with SEA were 7.0% and 11.6%.  Hunt's BB/K rate with BAL are 0.0% and 36.7%.  Based on his walk rate... reminds me of a MLB O'S catcher.   

Is the IL pitching that much better than the PCL?  Is Hunt trying to hard because of the H vs. H competition?  Hunt's SwStr% has gone from 7.7% to 16.1% between teams.

Maybe this is a look into what other GM's saw and why Hunt is on/in his 4th MLB organization and still in MiLB.

Last little nugget... like my dog kicking the grass after a piss...

Since going to Tacoma from the Trade, Michael Perez has done almost the opposite!  His SwStr% has gone from 11.8% to 6.9%.  wRC+ had gone from 58 to 96.  His walk rate has tripled (5.7 to 17.9). His K rate has nearly halved (31 to 17.9).

So... we aren't half way thru the AAA season and there is more time to compare our catchers coming up.  When and how Handley comes back from his IL stint is going to be interesting.

[CHIP]

Handley was returned to the Active roster on Sunday but did not play.

Banuelos looks like he got his 3 games for the month of June (1 game in March, 1 game in April, 3 games in May and 3 games in June.  He was 3-6 in April, 3-10 in May and 1-8 in June. 

So... either he is headed back to Taxi squad or they may even give Hunt a week to settle in and meet the folks/coaches, etc on the 0's since he is on the 40 man roster after all...

I guess we will see who the two catchers are going to be in Lehigh Valley series this week facing a couple old Tides catchers in Cody Roberts and Jose Godoy who haven't gotten much playing time but with Phillies losing their starter and moving up Marchan, playing time will be more available.