Cowser and the strikeouts.

[Warehouse]

By the way, if you filter to just offspeed and breaking pitches, it doesn’t change the story.

[baltfan]

4 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

No one doubts Colton Cowser has talent and a power bat. But the truth is , his strikeout rate ( more than a third of his at bats end in strikeouts.)...is alarming. He has had 209 at bats this year, and 73 times he has struck out. In 209 games as an Oriole, he has struck out 208 times. It's obvious the "book" on him around the league says he cant handle the changeup or off speed pitches.So the opposition has relied on this to  get him out. But with 209 at bats you would like to see him somewhat figure it out. He has dropped more than 100 points in his batting average since his great run at the beginning of the year, which was exciting to watch.But for an occasional HR  or well hit ball, he still struggles with K's. We don't want to see him cross over into Chris Davis strike out territory...but he's getting there. It worries me.And I'm a big Cowser fan.

Gunnar couldn’t hit offspead last year.  Now he crushes it.  Give him time. 

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Gunnar couldn’t hit offspead last year.  Now he crushes it.  Give him time. 

If you're comparing Gunnar to Colton you're going to be really disappointed. Those two are not created equally.

[baltfan]

23 minutes ago, Malike said:

If you're comparing Gunnar to Colton you're going to be really disappointed. Those two are not created equally.

I agree they are not created equal but people can get better, probably not as fast as Gunnar did. 

[Uli2001]

Cowser is probably going to figure it out and have a productive career. But if a deal presented itself to trade him (out of the division) for a reliable starter with control, the O's should make it in a heartbeat. Let Colton figure it out on someone else's time. The Orioles desperately need quality pitching.

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, Malike said:

If you're comparing Gunnar to Colton you're going to be really disappointed. Those two are not created equally.

That’s what you took from his point?

[Malike]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

That’s what you took from his point?

Saying Gunnar couldn't hit an off-speed pitch when he first came up and give Cowser time and he will, yes, that's what I took from that. There is no indication that Cowser will be able to make the adjustment, he's not in the same talent stratosphere as Henderson and the comparison was a poor one.

I'm all for Cowser playing all season long, RHP/LHP, whatever, but he's been fed a steady dose of changeups and curveballs for 2 months now and he can't even spit on them let alone hit them.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Malike said:

Saying Gunnar couldn't hit an off-speed pitch when he first came up and give Cowser time and he will, yes, that's what I took from that. There is no indication that Cowser will be able to make the adjustment, he's not in the same talent stratosphere as Henderson and the comparison was a poor one.

I'm all for Cowser playing all season long, RHP/LHP, whatever, but he's been fed a steady dose of changeups and curveballs for 2 months now and he can't even spit on them let alone hit them.

It’s foolish to say there isn’t evidence. The evidence is that he is a very talented hitter with elite batted ball stats and a great approach.  Acting like he can’t learn to adjust is ridiculous. 
 

He will probably always have a hole in his swing but I would bet he gets better overall.

[Malike]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s foolish to say there isn’t evidence. The evidence is that he is a very talented hitter with elite batted ball stats and a great approach.  Acting like he can’t learn to adjust is ridiculous. 
 

He will probably always have a hole in his swing but I would bet he gets better overall.

What evidence have you seen that he's going to start hitting curves and changeups? his wRC+ against 141 changeups this season is 30 and Gunnars wRC+ against 225 last year was 131. Gunnar vs Curves last year 181 pitches wRC+190, Cowser against 91 Curves this year wRC+ -9. Sure, they are an okay comp.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Malike said:

What evidence have you seen that he's going to start hitting curves and changeups? his wRC+ against 141 changeups this season is 30 and Gunnars wRC+ against 225 last year was 131. Gunnar vs Curves last year 181 pitches wRC+190, Cowser against 91 Curves this year wRC+ -9. Sure, they are an okay comp.

My evidence is that I think he’s a good hitter, with an excellent approach that has a lot of talent.

He may struggle with those pitches all year but I think talented players, all of which usually have some weakness, tend to get better over time.

It’s incredible to me how impatient this site is with young players.  It’s like listening to a local talk show.

[Malike]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

My evidence is that I think he’s a good hitter, with an excellent approach that has a lot of talent.

He may struggle with those pitches all year but I think talented players, all of which usually have some weakness, tend to get better over time.

It’s incredible to me how impatient this site is with young players.  It’s like listening to a local talk show.

I literally just said play him all year, whatever. I'm not saying send him down or platoon him, even though he's definitely a platoon candidate. I'm just saying he's been fed a steady dose of those two pitches for two months and hasn't shown a hint of being able to handle them. 

[eddie83]

Cowser last year struggled on both sides of the ball. I know we kid about his throwing accuracy but he has played well defensively. We will see if they add a RH bat to the OF. No reason for him not to keep playing. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Malike said:

I literally just said play him all year, whatever. I'm not saying send him down or platoon him, even though he's definitely a platoon candidate. I'm just saying he's been fed a steady dose of those two pitches for two months and hasn't shown a hint of being able to handle them. 

Wow, 2 whole months.  How will he ever recover from that?

He may never do become better with them. Acting as if that’s written in stone is absurd. 

Most non elite guys have weaknesses but that doesn’t mean they can’t improve on those weaknesses. He may never be an elite hitter because of those things but he can be a better hitter than he is and there is plenty of evidence to believe that.

[Malike]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Wow, 2 whole months.  How will he ever recover from that?

He may never do become better with them. Acting as if that’s written in stone is absurd. 

Most non elite guys have weaknesses but that doesn’t mean they can’t improve on those weaknesses. He may never be an elite hitter because of those things but he can be a better hitter than he is and there is plenty of evidence to believe that.

So it went like this. Someone said Gunnar struggled for a month in April vs off-speed last year, give Cowser time. I replied, they are two very different animals and it's a bad comp. You hop in and say that's what you took from that? Yes, you comp Gunnar likely the best player in the game with Cowser and say he'll be fine and that's just dumb. If you can't see it was a bad comp, then I can't help you.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Malike said:

So it went like this. Someone said Gunnar struggled for a month in April vs off-speed last year, give Cowser time. I replied, they are two very different animals and it's a bad comp. You hop in and say that's what you took from that? Yes, you comp Gunnar likely the best player in the game with Cowser and say he'll be fine and that's just dumb. If you can't see it was a bad comp, then I can't help you.

The comp wasn’t to Gunnar exactly. It was using him as an example of a player who had a big weakness just last year and was able to overcome it.

You could go through every team and find guys, ones less talented than Gunnar and find guys who made adjustments on weaknesses.

We have others on the team…OHearn is an example. Westburg showed very little power in the majors last year. That’s not the case now.

It happens all the time and guys as talented as Cowser should be thought of as players that can do it.

 

Edited June 24 by Sports Guy