Who will pay Burnes $400M this offseason?

[Pickles]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Hey way to acknowledge me supporting my point with evidence, and not trying to immediately push back.  That's the type of behavior that got you on me /ignore list in the first place.

There are other examples, as you well know.  The Padres for instance.

But hey, you do you and I'll go back to not bothering to read your replies.

 

Hey, way to ignore the evidence I provided which basically shows your point is bunk.

Bro, I don't care if I'm on your ignore list.  LOL.

Telling somebody that you're ignoring them is one of the weakest and most childish things imaginable.  But you do you.

 

 

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, waroriole said:

I can see them pursuing him and I wouldn’t be against it. But anyone who thinks he’s signing for 4/120, or that there’s a big FA SP class, needs a better editor. 

I think he’s getting somewhere around $180 million

[Just Regular]

Here was the Wheeler extension from this past spring - he is finishing 2024 under the terms of his original 2020-2024 contract, so these are guarantees Middleton and Dombrowski made blind to whether Wheeler would hit any health bumps in 2024.

Wheeler 5.30.1990 is 4 plus years older than Burnes 10.22.1994, but has a ton more October achievement, including 7 shutout innings this afternoon.    30 Swings and Misses!!!

3 years/$126M (2025-27)

• signed extension with Philadelphia 3/4/24
• 25:$42M, 26:$42M, 27:$42M

Edited 17 hours ago by Just Regular

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, Pickles said:

Do you honestly think attendance is driven by payroll and not winning?  B/c that is basically what you're saying, and demonstrably false.

No I don’t. Attendance is drive by how interested the fans are in going out to games. Winning is a part of it and surely having a championship winning team will get even casual fans to be interested in attending. However, only two teams can appear in the Series. There are more factors that affect attendance including the ownerships investment in the team and in particular star players - ask San Diego. They had one of the highest team’s in attendance last year and they didn’t even make it to the playoffs. If simply having a winning record was all that matters Tampa’s attendance year over year wouldn’t be as poor. 

In the current era of professional sports, you are dealing with a customer base that is as informed as ever with the internet and the ease of access of information. You don’t think the fans were unimpressed by the Orioles second half? And/or some that were disappointed by some of the moves and that dampened some of their enthusiasm?

[Pickles]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

No I don’t. Attendance is drive by how interested the fans are in going out to games. Winning is a part of it and surely having a championship winning team will get even casual fans to be interested in attending. However, only two teams can appear in the Series. There are more factors that affect attendance including the ownerships investment in the team and in particular star players - ask San Diego. They had one of the highest team’s in attendance last year and they didn’t even make it to the playoffs. If simply having a winning record was all that matters Tampa’s attendance year over year wouldn’t be as poor. 

In the current era of professional sports, you are dealing with a customer base that is as informed as ever with the internet and the ease of access of information. You don’t think the fans were unimpressed by the Orioles second half? And/or some that were disappointed by some of the moves and that dampened some of their enthusiasm?

Yes, I think if they had won 96 games and the division this year they would have had slightly better attendance.

But I don't believe that if they sign some big name FA this off-season that is going to drive attendance in any substantial way.

The best way for them to drive attendance is to win as much as possible.

And all of that is pretty demonstrably true.

[Bemorewins]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Yes, I think if they had won 96 games and the division this year they would have had slightly better attendance.

But I don't believe that if they sign some big name FA this off-season that is going to drive attendance in any substantial way.

The best way for them to drive attendance is to win as much as possible.

And all of that is pretty demonstrably true.

What you are saying doesn’t explain San Diego Padres since they began signing big time FAs and investing in their on-field product in a significant way to make their team relevant. Nor does it explain Tampa who has won for the most part since like 07’ and can’t draw flies. While the Tampa Lightning have great attendance and relevance in their community in what can be argued in a less popular sport.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

What you are saying doesn’t explain San Diego Padres since they began signing big time FAs and investing in their on-field product in a significant way to make their team relevant. Nor does it explain Tampa who has won for the most part since like 07’ and can’t draw flies. While the Tampa Lightning have great attendance and relevance in their community in what can be argued in a less popular sport.

The O's won the second most games in MLB last season, why were they 21st in Attendance in 2023 and 19th in 2024?

 

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

The O's won the second most games in MLB last season, why were they 21st in Attendance in 2023 and 19th in 2024?

 

First, the had a jump in 23’ given how terrible they had been previously, which conditions many fans in the marketplace not to care. They simple weren’t relevant for years.

So one very good regular season will not undue years of being bad/irrelevant and treating your customers terribly.

Next, I think they missed an opportunity in the offseason by not doing enough by way of big/bold attention grabbing moves. Now I acknowledge that this was most likely due to the ownership flux/transition. I believe they got an attendance/marketplace engagement boost when they changed owners and when they traded for Burnes. However, I believe we would have seen more engagement attendance with say a big Gunnar extension and/or bringing in a big time FA.
 

IMO this would have created more buzz before the season (say around the time people make season tix decisions - IMO before Christmas is when some people make those bigger purchases).

All of this is to say, that it will take time and effort on the organizations part because of how bad of a stain that the Angeloses left. I still have friends and colleagues who refuse to support the Orioles and attend games due to the damage that was done. Rubenstien & co are not going to be able to undo 30 years of awfulness overnight. But IMO it is not enough to simply call it “a new chapter”. They have to make new/different actions to distinguish themselves from who the Orioles were/used to be under the Angelos regime.

[Roll Tide]

9 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

The O's won the second most games in MLB last season, why were they 21st in Attendance in 2023 and 19th in 2024?

 

Could it be that they allowed the Gnats to reside within 30 minutes of their home. Effectively cutting their market in half? 

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Could it be that they allowed the Gnats to reside within 30 minutes of their home. Effectively cutting their market in half? 

Good point, no other metropolitan area has more than one team.

[tntoriole]

Are there any numbers as to business and corporate season ticket buys?  It seems like (certainly before Nats) that many more tickets were purchased this way by businesses.  Then with loss of DC market, Baltimore violence, the great recession, the losing, Covid etc that the attendance in Baltimore has been impacted. 
Baltimore has always been a limited market.. those years when Camden was new and winning teams were outliers.  Just like the barely 1 million attendance years for the best baseball teams in history of the 60s and early 70s 

[Sports Guy]

44 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Are there any numbers as to business and corporate season ticket buys?  It seems like (certainly before Nats) that many more tickets were purchased this way by businesses.  Then with loss of DC market, Baltimore violence, the great recession, the losing, Covid etc that the attendance in Baltimore has been impacted. 
Baltimore has always been a limited market.. those years when Camden was new and winning teams were outliers.  Just like the barely 1 million attendance years for the best baseball teams in history of the 60s and early 70s 

Losing the DC market was a crushing blow to the team. That can’t be argued against. It hurt season tickets, suites and corporate sales.

 

[waroriole]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Good point, no other metropolitan area has more than one team.

There are top 3 population cities that share teams. The only other metro area I can think of that had two teams just lost one to Las Vegas. 

[OriolesUpAndDowns]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Losing the DC market was a crushing blow to the team. That can’t be argued against. It hurt season tickets, suites and corporate sales.

 

I don't have the stats but my perception from living in NOVA for 10 years now is the market is growing down here faster then Baltimore's suburbs.  

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, waroriole said:

There are top 3 population cities that share teams. The only other metro area I can think of that had two teams just lost one to Las Vegas. 

Which is convenient since it's in the top 3.

From Wiki:

Quote

The Washington–Baltimore combined metropolitan statistical area is a statistical area, including the overlapping metropolitan areas of Washington, D.C. and Baltimore. The region includes Central Maryland, Northern Virginia, three counties in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, and one county in south-central Pennsylvania. It is the most educated, highest-income, and third-most populous combined statistical area in the United States behind New York City–Newark, NJ and Los Angeles–Long Beach.^[2][3]