Trading for Tarik Skubal

[Bemorewins]

25 minutes ago, CTBear said:

I think it’s pretty unlikely we’re going for Crochet, or any CWS player for that matter, after last year. It sounded pretty clear Elias was dragged along by Getz all the way up to the deadline for Cease and they just never moved him. I can’t imagine Elias wants to do that one over. 

This logic makes perfect sense to me.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

This logic makes perfect sense to me.

Not me.  You can't afford to close off avenues to improve the team because a peer is difficult to work with.

[Sports Guy]

27 minutes ago, CTBear said:

I think it’s pretty unlikely we’re going for Crochet, or any CWS player for that matter, after last year. It sounded pretty clear Elias was dragged along by Getz all the way up to the deadline for Cease and they just never moved him. I can’t imagine Elias wants to do that one over. 

I doubt any of this is true.

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, theobird said:

The goal is, and should be sustained success and years of championship opportunities. Period.

How do we make ourselves into legit championship contenders without very good pitching?

Didn’t we see this move play out just last year? Are we putting all our hopes in Grayson and Kremer being better this time around? Does that not seem a little risky?

[CaptainRedbeard]

3 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

At the end of the day, until I know for a FACT that Rubenstein will spend and spend generously, I'm not giving up the titanic haul of cheap future assets it would require to land Skubal (or Crochet). 

I understand this sentiment, but if they are not going to boost payroll that cuts both ways. It makes Skubal and Crochet MUCH more valuable on their 2.5 years of very cheap control. They need to bring in SP for this year and the next few years, and if they’re not going to do that by leveraging what should be massive capacity to add payroll (especially with arb guys like Santander, Mullins, Hays about to drop off the books), then they’re going to need to do very expensive trades for pitchers with controllable cheap years. 

[Bemorewins]

10 minutes ago, Chromehill said:

Exactly.  If Detroit does not get the deal they want, they wait until the off-season or the deadline next year.  Who knows, they could try to extend him too.  

The longer DET waits the less value Skubal will carry and the greater the likelihood of him potentially suffering an injury.

CHI held out for Cease trying to squeeze Holliday out of us. What they ended up with in the offseason was a haul that at best had the #85 ranked prospect at the time.

Extending a pitcher on a team that is going nowhere and is bereft of offensive talent makes little to no sense. Why would they take on that kind of risk? Instead of using their most valuable asset to amass other younger assets that fit the timeline of the best younger players they have at single A?

[RZNJ]

12 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Again I liked Steve Pearce.   Always did. 

But....

You are comparing Nelson Cruz, someone I really liked, to SP....someone I also really liked.  One has nothing to do with the other.

My point was NC should have been signed.  This was said.  Over and over.  You said no....under no circumstances should he be singed.  Over and over. 

 

Who was right?  How hard is it to admit that you were 1000000000000000% wrong?  Not just wrong....not even in the same universe wrong. 

 

Anyone can be wrong.  I am wrong all of the time.  At least I can admit it. 

 

But you keep playing whataboutism. 

You never admitted that you said the Orioles were going to struggle to make the playoffs last September.   Practice what you preach, Junior.  

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not me.  You can't afford to close off avenues to improve the team because a peer is difficult to work with.

Relationships matter in the business of professional sports. Some teams deal more frequently with other teams and never deal with others because of those relationships. It is very plausible that what the CHI SOX did at the deadline with insisting on Holliday and holding us up may have damaged the relationship with Elias and the O’s.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

Relationships matter in the business of professional sports. Some teams deal more frequently with other teams and never deal with others because of those relationships. It is very plausible that what the CHI SOX did at the deadline with insisting on Holliday and holding us up may have damaged the relationship with Elias and the O’s.

Sure they matter but you aren't going to not take the call.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Relationships matter in the business of professional sports. Some teams deal more frequently with other teams and never deal with others because of those relationships. It is very plausible that what the CHI SOX did at the deadline with insisting on Holliday and holding us up may have damaged the relationship with Elias and the O’s.

I’m 99.9% sure you are completely overblowing this. 

[Frobby]

18 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Prior to the trade, Soto had seasons of 7.1, 5.0, 3.0 and 2.4 WAR, plus 3.7 WAR at the time of the midseason trade (he finished with 5.5). Skubal is at 4.4 WAR but previous were 2.0, 1.4, and 1.7. Soto has a much stronger resume in addition to playing every day and no TJ risk. I don't think they are close to comparable.

Forget about Soto.  Would you agree that 2.3 seasons of Skubal should be more valuable than 2.0 years of Erik Bedard was in the 2007-08 offseason?  The O’s received Adam Jones (#28 BA), Tillman (#67 BA), George Sherrill (established major league reliever with 3 years of control), Tony Butler (org. top 10 prospect) and Kam Mickolio (reliever prospect who threw in the high 90’s).   

[GoldGlove21]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure they matter but you aren't going to not take the call.

You take the call, but you don't make it. The White Sox are just so poorly run.

[CTBear]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I doubt any of this is true.

I think it’s pretty plausible. We were heavily linked to Cease on the final day and Elias even said he was working to acquire other pitchers and Flaherty was more of a contingency plan since talks fell through. And then, Cease did get dealt in the offseason so it’s safe to assume he was available at the deadline and they just couldn’t find a deal. 

[Just Regular]

I see a good gap between the 9 best longer term bats options, and the 10th guy.    Since Honeycutt, labeling CF a EBJ/Honeycutt platoon probably reasonable for the longer term.

Not Spare Parts: C Adley, 1B Mayo, 2B Holliday, SS Gunnar, 3B Westburg, LF Cowser, CF EBJ-Honeycutt, RF Kjerstad, DH Basallo

Spare Parts: Mateo, O'Hearn, Mountcastle, Mullins, Hays, Stowers, Beavers, Norby

Before this year's big step up, I generally regarded Westburg a step behind those others.    The shock trade off the top of the deck at the end of this month is him - he is at I think a Sell High moment in his career arc.    Prospect clinging, certainly Westburg's growth after many years of SIGBOT flavored training is an argument for keeping everybody.

Joey Ortiz's success should help Elias get value for his second tier guys.   

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, GoldGlove21 said:

You take the call, but you don't make it. The White Sox are just so poorly run.

I don't think they got a haul for Cease.  If the deal is good you take it.