Organizational Turmoil?

[dystopia]

15 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m quite certain that there are other who are or were frustrated. Stowers, Norby, Urias, Mateo, Mullins. I’m betting the majority of guys feeling jerked around or reduced playing time. What is Urias hitting over the last 4-6 weeks. He might not express his frustration but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have it. Thinking it’s just Hays is Naive 

Norby threw a little shade when he was demoted after spring training. 

[eddie83]

Where did Hays say anything? Is there an article somewhere? 
 

You could tell by Hays comments on some postgames he wasn’t himself. Maybe once the deadline is over guys can get back to just playing. 

[BobP]

I have worried about some of this since spring training. I chalk most of these issues up to human nature. The veterans (Santander, Mullins, Hays) want extensions to lock up some security because they see the talent behind them. The guys in Norfolk know they are good enough to play in the majors and only have so much patience. I believe Elias made a mistake in the offseason by not opening more spots for the young guys and providing the vets with better long term opportunities. The issues might get worse if Stowers and/or Norby are back/still in Norfolk after the deadline. Mayo and Holliday might get restless also. As for extensions, we need to give the new owner the offseason to work with Elias on long term cash flows. We need to get through the deadline to see where future issues may exist.

[OriolesUpAndDowns]

This is a common thing in all sports.  Young guys are hungry and want to prove themselves while the older guard believes they have proven themselves already and deserve opportunities.  
 

It was bound to happen with all the talent we have in AAA that would be on most major league rosters.  
 

I had thought Hays was the clubhouse leader but it probably falls on Mullins now.  

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

This. Hays asked for an extension in the offseason and didn’t get it. Could be some other things going on but I would bet this is what the main “issue” is. 

The issue(s) more than likely extend will beyond a bitter Austin Hays.

Do you think Mullins is happy? Do you think that Conor Norby has been happy with how he has been handled over the last year? Stowers? Mayo who they have left down in AAA this season despite his numbers? Urias? 

[Roll Tide]

Don’t know why we needed another thread …here is some additional info 

 

https://forum.orioleshangout.com/topic/54047-clubhouse-issues/

[Roll Tide]

9 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Norby threw a little shade when he was demoted after spring training. 

Honestly… Elias’ lack of direction and prospect hoarding has created a lot of this imo. But, Gunnar’s defense, Kjerstad in LF, injuries, poor bullpen construction, hitting philosophy are all serious problems.

[Warehouse]

1 minute ago, BobP said:

I have worried about some of this since spring training. I chalk most of these issues up to human nature. The veterans (Santander, Mullins, Hays) want extensions to lock up some security because they see the talent behind them. The guys in Norfolk know they are good enough to play in the majors and only have so much patience. I believe Elias made a mistake in the offseason by not opening more spots for the young guys and providing the vets with better long term opportunities. The issues might get worse if Stowers and/or Norby are back/still in Norfolk after the deadline. Mayo and Holliday might get restless also. As for extensions, we need to give the new owner the offseason to work with Elias on long term cash flows. We need to get through the deadline to see where future issues may exist.

It feels like a stretch to me that players being in Norfolk is hurting the vibes on the Major League team.  If those players come up, they will take jobs or playing time from current players.  

Obviously, if there is a perception that we’re playing service time games instead of fielding our best players, then that could hurt morale.  However, I’m skeptical that current players are outraged that Mountcastle/O’Hearn/Westburg are playing over Mayo right now in the same way that some fans may be.

Goon references veteran players in contract years - I’m pretty sure that’s only Santander and Burnes who are not feeling any competition from young players and both made the all-star team.

With regard to long term extensions, it seems a bit silly to say young players want long term extensions but are being blocked by their agents and this is hurting morale. Boras has never inked an extension for a player with less than two years service time like Gunnar or Westy. Adley and his GF are from the Pacific Northwest- maybe they want to eventually be closer to home.  GRod, Cowser, and Kjerstad may be viewed as more risky candidates for an extension by Elias. 

It’s not clear to me that Goon’s column represents any actual reporting as opposed to pure speculation.

[jdwilde1]

5 minutes ago, BobP said:

I have worried about some of this since spring training. I chalk most of these issues up to human nature. The veterans (Santander, Mullins, Hays) want extensions to lock up some security because they see the talent behind them. The guys in Norfolk know they are good enough to play in the majors and only have so much patience. I believe Elias made a mistake in the offseason by not opening more spots for the young guys and providing the vets with better long term opportunities. The issues might get worse if Stowers and/or Norby are back/still in Norfolk after the deadline. Mayo and Holliday might get restless also. As for extensions, we need to give the new owner the offseason to work with Elias on long term cash flows. We need to get through the deadline to see where future issues may exist.

I agree, with the caveat that Santander is a different animal than Hays and Mullins.  Santander plays every day and is having a career year going into FA.  It’s really the situation that every player wants. Meanwhile, Hays and Mullins are platooning after being every day players, and are having poor seasons.  
 

I am sure Hays thought he had earned the right to play through his rough start, but it always doesn’t work out that way. 
 

The thing I really want to see is what the O’s off-season looks like with Rubenstein’s ownership compared to JA.

[Roll Tide]

6 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Honestly… Elias’ lack of direction and prospect hoarding has created a lot of this imo. But, Gunnar’s defense, Kjerstad in LF, injuries, poor bullpen construction, hitting philosophy are all serious problems.

@hgizzle what is so hard to understand about what I said? The stupid look emoji is well stupid. Offer some thoughts to the conversation. Thanks 

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, Warehouse said:

It feels like a stretch to me that players being in Norfolk is hurting the vibes on the Major League team.  If those players come up, they will take jobs or playing time from current players.  

Obviously, if there is a perception that we’re playing service time games instead of fielding our best players, then that could hurt morale.  However, I’m skeptical that current players are outraged that Mountcastle/O’Hearn/Westburg are playing over Mayo right now in the same way that some fans may be.

Goon references veteran players in contract years - I’m pretty sure that’s only Santander and Burnes who are not feeling any competition from young players and both made the all-star team.

With regard to long term extensions, it seems a bit silly to say young players want long term extensions but are being blocked by their agents and this is hurting morale. Boras has never inked an extension for a player with less than two years service time like Gunnar or Westy. Adley and his GF are from the Pacific Northwest- maybe they want to eventually be closer to home.  GRod, Cowser, and Kjerstad may be viewed as more risky candidates for an extension by Elias. 

It’s not clear to me that Goon’s column represents any actual reporting as opposed to pure speculation.

For me it’s the frustration of guys bouncing back and forth or being blocked. You don’t think Norby and Stowers haven’t voiced their frustrations about not getting a shot. They came through the organization with Adley and Gunnar. You don’t think they’ve talked with Mayo expressed his frustration with being blocked. Yes it’s a business but many of these guys are friends.

Edited July 27 by Roll Tide

[Tbone83]

His is why I was happy with the trade yesterday, even if we didn’t get much. Always wondered how Hays was dealing with his situation. All Star last year then hard pressed to get in the lineup this year. Part of that is his fault- he has been bad this year. Part of it is the front office. Too many prospects bubbling up and not enough room to play them. And on top of it all, we are in a pennant race here. 
 

I doubt there is chaos but the GM needs to pee or get off the pot this week regarding the farm. Trade prospects for pitching or keep the prospects and start figuring out how to get hem up here and playing. If that means losing some vets…it is what it is.

[Roll Tide]

26 minutes ago, OriolesUpAndDowns said:

This is a common thing in all sports.  Young guys are hungry and want to prove themselves while the older guard believes they have proven themselves already and deserve opportunities.  
 

It was bound to happen with all the talent we have in AAA that would be on most major league rosters.  
 

I had thought Hays was the clubhouse leader but it probably falls on Mullins now.  

The problem is we are getting piss poor baseball lately. Yes we can blame injuries. But, the offensive approach,poor defense, ? 

[Aristotelian]

14 minutes ago, Warehouse said:

It’s not clear to me that Goon’s column represents any actual reporting as opposed to pure speculation.

Actually it's clear to me that there is no reporting. No quotes or even "sources say".

[drjohnnyfever1]

i agree with what those who are saying the vets might be a little miffed with uncertain contract futures looming.  But the reality is the young guys are going to be auditioned adequately before summarily being brought up just to take their "rightful" places now filled by vets.

I don't have any problem with how Elias is handling talent either in the farm or on the MLB team.  And after reflecting a while on a position I had about trading long-term O's during a Playoff/WS run - basically, that Elias would show some deference to guys that got us here - I've flopped on that. 

What I think is happening is that the audition process is concluding in some ways.  Had Hays come out like an All-Star again this year, I still think he would have/ could have been traded, but for maybe a higher net.  Cowser and Kierstadt have, by now, proven themselves - so to speak, and having control of them, makes them more valuable, particularly since both were outperforming Hays. 

I think Mullins could be next.  To me, it was basically a "prove it" year for anyone competing for OF positions.  My biggest question is do they amp up the "try outs" for 2nd and 3rd base now.