Organizational Turmoil?

[Number5]

Uptown problems.  This isn't "turmoil."  We've got good players that want to play.  Who wants a bunch of guys that are happy to be on the bench?

[Just Regular]

I am curious to see Joey Ortiz back at SS next year.     He's Willy Adames teammates for the same amount of time natural RF Kjerstad is off position breaking into a big league lineup because of Santander.

Ortiz seems to have hit the NFL's proverbial rookie wall this month.    MLB is a demanding grind.

[emmett16]

27 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I remember Bill James parsing LF-CF-RF like:

-if you can run but not throw, you're a LF

-if you can throw but not run, you're a RF

-you're a CF if you can do both.

Santander and Kjerstad are two RF profiles for one lineup for a minute.

I'd figured Cowser-Kjerstad one going was a decent Over/Under the highest value player Elias would trade, but after yesterday the Under is looking good.

Something like Kjerstad, EBJ, Povich and McDermott for Skubal could maybe still happen.

Sign me up. 

[Just Regular]

Whether the Tigers move or hold Skubal is I think the test case for how liquid all the Raysian Agent Smith GM's have made the market.

The 2025-2026 Tigers pass muster as good enough to want a pitcher like Skubal, but...

...there is 2024 injury risk, and efficiency asks for Skubal's 2024 form to be in the top tier of clubs chasing this championship in a 3 months window where right now his arm has not exploded.

Edited July 27 by Just Regular

[Malike]

This thread is a prime example of people feeling like they need to quantify everything. The team is playing badly right now, there are so many conspiracies as to why, but they are just playing badly right now, it happens.

[banks703]

17 minutes ago, terpoh said:

LIke I said, until he proves that hes the best defender in the organization in Baltimore- I'm not crowning him as such. Clearly the Brewers agree or else they wouldve shifted Adames for him. 

LOL 

 

OK, pal. 

[Frobby]

This thread should be merged with the Clubhouse Issues thread.  They’re both from the same Kyle Goon article in the Banner.

I didn’t make too much of it.  I think it’s natural that veteran players don’t want their roles reduced and younger players want opportunities.  The article stopped well short of saying there’s “turmoil” in the clubhouse.  Allowing “tensions” to “simmer?”   Yeah, probably.  It’s a byproduct of having a lot of depth at certain roster spots.  But it doesn’t appear that players are resentful of each other or anything of that nature.  

[Greg Pappas]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This thread should be merged with the Clubhouse Issues thread.  They’re both from the same Kyle Goon article in the Banner.

I didn’t make too much of it.  I think it’s natural that veteran players don’t want their roles reduced and younger players want opportunities.  The article stopped well short of saying there’s “turmoil” in the clubhouse.  Allowing “tensions” to “simmer?”   Yeah, probably.  It’s a byproduct of having a lot of depth at certain roster spots.  But it doesn’t appear that players are resentful of each other or anything of that nature.  

This.

[emmett16]

18 minutes ago, Malike said:

This thread is a prime example of people feeling like they need to quantify everything. The team is playing badly right now, there are so many conspiracies as to why, but they are just playing badly right now, it happens.

When they are playing well we get articles about all the bros, team building, and bffs.  When they play poorly we get this.  Human nature I suppose.  Writers gonna write and try for dopamine clicks.  

[glenn__davis]

20 minutes ago, Malike said:

This thread is a prime example of people feeling like they need to quantify everything. The team is playing badly right now, there are so many conspiracies as to why, but they are just playing badly right now, it happens.

100%. To me the only interesting part was the idea of someone bringing Hays' discontent to Elias' attention. We know this team takes being a team first player very seriously.  To me it seems likely that Hyde went to Elias and told him you need to address this.  But that's just speculation on my part. 

[baltfan]

Hays and Mullins were given plenty of opportunity at the beginning of the season to play and do well.  When they didn't for over a month, playing time changed.  That is going to happen on a contender.  They perhaps aren't used to that because they previously hadn't played for a contender.  Anyway, Santander demonstrated that guys that perform play.  They have no one to be upset with other than themselves.  

[sportsfan8703]

48 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This thread should be merged with the Clubhouse Issues thread.  They’re both from the same Kyle Goon article in the Banner.

I didn’t make too much of it.  I think it’s natural that veteran players don’t want their roles reduced and younger players want opportunities.  The article stopped well short of saying there’s “turmoil” in the clubhouse.  Allowing “tensions” to “simmer?”   Yeah, probably.  It’s a byproduct of having a lot of depth at certain roster spots.  But it doesn’t appear that players are resentful of each other or anything of that nature.  

I think there is something to it with Hays, Mullins, and Santander close to FA and knowing they’re not getting extensions. Burnes knew that coming here. Gunnar and Adley see that the big “Witt” deal hasn’t come their way. Oh and the trade deadline is going on. 

How could this not hurt our team chemistry?

I think the answer now is to trade Mullins, Mountcastle, and Urias. Call up Holliday and Mayo. Turn the team over to the young guys, possibly take our lumps, and hope a new clubhouse dynamic rallies for a playoff run. 

Unfortunately, I think we’re going to look back at this year and realize that this was a transition year. 

Edited July 27 by sportsfan8703

[SilverRocket]

1 hour ago, banks703 said:

I openly advocated for Joey Ortiz for a lonnnnggg time and truly believe that they wasted at least a year of his youth before finally moving him for Burnes. The trade has obviously worked out for both teams and for the players involved but if they're going to run the org like the O's, one of Jorge or Ramon should have been moved to clear the way for Joey.

When a player stays down for a year, it brings an extra year of team control. 6 years of Ortiz is worth more than 5 years, and if he had a year more service time under his belt the O's probably have to throw in a little extra in the Burnes trade to make the math add up. So leaving him down is not wasting a year, from a GM perspective.

Yeah one way to do it would have been moving Mateo or Urias, but we have no idea what that would have gotten us in return, and I would guess Elias deemed it worse than an additional future year of Ortiz.

[banks703]

Just now, SilverRocket said:

When a player stays down for a year, it brings an extra year of team control. 6 years of Ortiz is worth more than 5 years, and if he had a year more service time under his belt the O's probably have to throw in a little extra in the Burnes trade to make the math add up. So leaving him down is not wasting a year, from a GM perspective.

Yeah one way to do it would have been moving Mateo or Urias, but we have no idea what that would have gotten us in return, and I would guess Elias deemed it worse than an additional future year of Ortiz.

A year younger Joey Ortiz is worth more than a year older Joey Ortiz. 

[terpoh]

48 minutes ago, banks703 said:

LOL 

 

OK, pal. 

Without your snarky response, my point is this.

You claim that Joey Ortiz was without question the best defensive player we had in the organization. I am saying that doing that in Bowie/Norfolk and doing that in Baltimore are very different things. Especially at a position as demanding as shortstop. To just assume that he would come up and be prime Omar Vizquel in the big leagues doesnt make sense to me. And Milwaukee has not even put him at SS this year. During that time where he was supposedly the best defensive player in our entire organization we also had a gold glove winner at 3B and fielding bible award winner at SS so I find it hard to believe that Joey wouldve been better than those two in Baltimore in 2022.

So now we look at 2024 in the big leagues- Fangraphs defensive metric which is positional adjusted so should correct for comparing across positions has Gunnar at 7.0 above average and Joey at 4.9 above average. We have a shortstop who is younger and better defensively.

As I said, time will tell if Joey becomes one of the best defensive players in the big leagues, I hope he does. But with every projection metric, offensively or defensively, they still have to come up and perform and do it. I do think that Joey shouldve been our starting 2B over Frazier last year.