Remember-Elias traded Tanner Scott 2 years ago for garbage. Good drafter. Horrible GM when it comes to trades.

[OnlyOneOriole]

Just now, Winter said:

exactly 

I guess we should ask the mods to investigate it then.  Mods please do.  Any info that you need (although you already have my name, address, IP address, and credit card info) I can give. 

[LookitsPuck]

11 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

A 26 year old high strikeout pitcher isn't a 'prospect'?

Really??  Do you want to go with that narrative?

Do words not mean anything any longer? The word prospect has a very distinct meaning. And it doesn’t mean somebody that has been in the majors for 4 full seasons.

 

[Safelykept]

4 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Cano worked out.  I liked Johnson.  As I said he bats around .250 as a trader being a GM.  I don't consider that great.  You at least need .500.  At a min. 

the Cano Trade was Lopez for Povich +, The Mancini Trade was Trey for McDermott plus johnson you dont think he won that trade, any thoughts on the new BP piece. The Rogers trade just happened the results are not in yet, but I would tend to agree with he was an overpay. If Miami did not win the Trade dead line, who did?

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Again, instead of personally insulting like you always do.  Please explain to me why this was such a good trade for the Os.

Give me logic and facts.  Not attacks.

It wasn't a good trade. But no GM wins every trade. Sometimes they make trades for various reasons outside of minimizing the odds of not winning the trade.

In your initial post you said this might have been the 2nd-worst trade in Orioles history. Currently by WAR they're losing this trade something like 6-0. I'd guess an average team loses a trade (long-term) by six wins every couple years.

Pick some random years... 2005. That was the year they traded Dave Crouthers, Mike Fontenot and Jerry Hairston to the Cubs for Sammy Sosa. Rest of their careers the O's lost that one 10-(-1).

Or how about 2013 when they traded Pedro Strop and Jake Arrieta for Steve Clevenger and Scott Feldman? Or giving up Josh Hader for Bud Norris?

Or in '15 when they gave up Zach Davis for Gerardo Parra?

Or in '16 when they gave up the Rangers' starting catcher, Jonah Heim for 25 games of the third go-around for Steve Pearce?

If you'd like we could go back farther in time. Doug DeCinces for Disco Dan Ford? Don Baylor and Mike Torrez for basically 3/4ths of a year of Reggie? Roy Lee Jackson for Alan Wiggins? Sammy Stewart for Jackie Gutierrez? Dennis Martinez for John Stefero? Mike Flanagan for Oswaldo Peraza? Eddie Murray for Juan Bell and Brian Holton?

Clearly this wasn't a great deal, but it's probably not in the 25 worst trades in franchise history. It happens. Find me a GM who hasn't made a moderately poor trade.

[DrungoHazewood]

13 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I would say the Marlins, and now the San Diego Padres, would strongly disagree with that assessment.   Especially considering the Padres just gave up 3 of their top 6 prospects to get him. 

The Glenn Davis trade was lost something like 130-1. This one is 6-0. That's like describing both a 24-14 football game and a 96-0 game as blowouts.

[OnlyOneOriole]

2 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Do words not mean anything any longer? The word prospect has a very distinct meaning. And it doesn’t mean somebody that has been in the majors for 4 full seasons.

 

HE pitched a total of 153 innings for the Os.   Averaging well over a strike out per inning.  How many pitchers do we have doing that?

At age 23 to 26 at the time?  Being that young? In today's MLB world that is worth a boat load.  Not what we gave him away for. 

[OnlyOneOriole]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

It wasn't a good trade. But no GM wins every trade. Sometimes they make trades for various reasons outside of minimizing the odds of not winning the trade.

In your initial post you said this might have been the 2nd-worst trade in Orioles history. Currently by WAR they're losing this trade something like 6-0. I'd guess an average team loses a trade (long-term) by six wins every couple years.

Pick some random years... 2005. That was the year they traded Dave Crouthers, Mike Fontenot and Jerry Hairston to the Cubs for Sammy Sosa. Rest of their careers the O's lost that one 10-(-1).

Or how about 2013 when they traded Pedro Strop and Jake Arrieta for Steve Clevenger and Scott Feldman? Or giving up Josh Hader for Bud Norris?

Or in '15 when they gave up Zach Davis for Gerardo Parra?

Or in '16 when they gave up the Rangers' starting catcher, Jonah Heim for 25 games of the third go-around for Steve Pearce?

If you'd like we could go back farther in time. Doug DeCinces for Disco Dan Ford? Don Baylor and Mike Torrez for basically 3/4ths of a year of Reggie? Roy Lee Jackson for Alan Wiggins? Sammy Stewart for Jackie Gutierrez? Dennis Martinez for John Stefero? Mike Flanagan for Oswaldo Peraza? Eddie Murray for Juan Bell and Brian Holton?

Clearly this wasn't a great deal, but it's probably not in the 25 worst trades in franchise history. It happens. Find me a GM who hasn't made a moderately poor trade.

I agree.  No GM is going to be perfect. And I am not saying he should be fired by any means.   But we have now seen him trade last year at the deadline, this year at the deadline, and if we include the TS trade and a few others?  He is  not doing well when it comes to trades overall. 

 

I think he drafts well.....when he is near the top in draft order.  I don't know if his drafts the past 3 years have been all that great however.   That remains to be seen. 

I know the farm system outside of the big 3 is VERY devoid of talent. Especially pitching talent and especially after the trades today. 

[LookitsPuck]

1 minute ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

HE pitched a total of 153 innings for the Os.   Averaging well over a strike out per inning.  How many pitchers do we have doing that?

At age 23 to 26 at the time?  Being that young? In today's MLB world that is worth a boat load.  Not what we gave him away for. 

Over his 4+ seasons with the O’s, he accumulated a positive WAR once (1.3), but netted out to 1 WAR over 4+ seasons. A 4.73 ERA, 1.545 WHIP, 5.5 BB/9, 4 FIP and an amazing SO/9. Aside from the SO/9 and one good season, those aren’t great numbers especially after he regressed in 2021.

The O’s did get a Comp B pick, but the players they got back haven’t worked out. Was it a bad trade? At the time? No. In hindsight? Yeah.

But in no way was Scott a prospect. He was a project. I’m glad he turned things around in Miami.

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I agree.  No GM is going to be perfect. And I am not saying he should be fired by any means.   But we have now seen him trade last year at the deadline, this year at the deadline, and if we include the TS trade and a few others?  He is  not doing well when it comes to trades overall. 

 

I think he drafts well.....when he is near the top in draft order.  I don't know if his drafts the past 3 years have been all that great however.   That remains to be seen. 

I know the farm system outside of the big 3 is VERY devoid of talent. Especially pitching talent and especially after the trades today. 

It's a little strange to say that the farm system that was ranked #1 preseason by MLB is now VERY devoid of talent. They gave up some pieces to win now, but that's kind of the point of having an overwhelmingly good system.

[scbalt52]

Maybe its because...Tanner Scott was garbage? Just a thought. I don't know anyone that wanted him. Felt the same way about him as Flaherty last year. He also turned it around. Sometimes people turn things around. 

 

Ask the Royals why they gave up O'Hearn for nothing, it's because he couldn't hit a baseball.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, scbalt52 said:

Maybe its because...Tanner Scott was garbage? Just a thought. I don't know anyone that wanted him. Felt the same way about him as Flaherty last year. He also turned it around. Sometimes people turn things around. 

 

Ask the Royals why they gave up O'Hearn for nothing, it's because he couldn't hit a baseball.

I didn't particularly want to get rid of a power lefty arm.

Those guys have a history of taking a bit long to mature.

I ain't going to pretend that I was all sorts of upset about it, but I'd have rather kept him.

[MurphDogg]

19 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

HE pitched a total of 153 innings for the Os.   Averaging well over a strike out per inning.  How many pitchers do we have doing that?

At age 23 to 26 at the time?  Being that young? In today's MLB world that is worth a boat load.  Not what we gave him away for. 

He couldn't make the bullpen in 2022.

He just didn't pitch well enough in 2021 or in Spring Training 2022. Sometimes players benefit from a change of scenery. 

It took another entire season as a replacement level pitcher in 2022 before he turned it around and stopped walking 6 per 9.

[scbalt52]

After thinking about it more, the OP is right, we should not have traded Scott...we shouldn't have been able to. We should've released him. How we got anything for him is a win. 

[scbalt52]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't particularly want to get rid of a power lefty arm.

Those guys have a history of taking a bit long to mature.

I ain't going to pretend that I was all sorts of upset about it, but I'd have rather kept him.

Ha, I mean I had hope that he would be good. He had the stuff. But he got whipped again and again. Reminded me of Daniel Cabrera. Potential but never panned out. Then Scott figured it out. I wouldn't be surprised though if this time next year he's pitching himself to be a DFA candidate. But he's on a nice run right now.

[Sports Guy]

Yea, this thread is garbage and full of wtf is this guy talking about stuff but I think looking at this a different way is fair…what happened that caused the Os to not develop him?  Why couldn’t we get through to him?