Hyde Hot Seat

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, SteveA said:

If we made a change, we would not be bringing in a Dusty Baker / Ron Washington type (super old school).   Elias isn't going to hire someone who isn't on board with all his modern methods.   No Dusty, no Showalter.   Count on it.

Houston hired Dusty.   I don’t think Elias would necessarily avoid an old school manager.  I doubt it would be Dusty or Buck, however.   Anyway, that’s a problem for sometime in the future.   

[sportsfan8703]

19 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

What's the excuse for the hitting, are you serious?

Cowser strikes out all the time, he's not a polished product.

Holliday is an automatic out.  

Mayo is an automatic out.

If you're doing the math, that's about 9 outs a game right there between those three.

O'Hearn is a platoon guy, he's playing more than he should.

Tony's prone to hellacious slumps that are on the other end of the spectrum from his amazing hot streaks.

Slater's decent against lefties, not much else.

Adley's not great this year.

Jimenez is a joke.

So as it stands right now, you've got two guys in the everyday lineup that look like competent hitters in Gunnar and Mullins.

And you ask what's the excuse for the hitting?  Half these guys aren't ready, the others aren't great players and/or can go on extended cold streaks like Tony.

What, you thought a stern talking-to was going to make Cowser stop striking out?

You’re correct. You’ve successfully argued your point. Does that change reality?  Can we go back to hitting now?

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

You’re correct. You’ve successfully argued your point. Does that change reality?  Can we go back to hitting now?

I know I'm correct, and you're still looking for a fall guy to make you feel better.

[waroriole]

29 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

This is such a FM afternoon drive sports talk radio take.  C'mon, he guides a team in 2022 that had no business finishing over .500 into an 83 win season, they win the division last year and all of that is wiped out by a bad couple months?

This whole thing is silly.  "Fire the manager" is one of the dumbest hot takes in a society filled with dumb sports-related hot takes.  Sometimes it's warranted but in this case it ain't.  

I get it, everyone's pissed, everyone's upset, everyone wants a "fall guy" or a whipping boy or someone to blame for this.  But this is baseball, the injuries are too severe to overcome and the supposed stud rookies aren't close to being ready.  "Fire the manager" doesn't do anything to alleviate any of those things.

Go find a fall guy somewhere else.

It’s not just about the collapse this year. He’s objectively a poor manager. His best attribute has been the respect he seemed to receive from his players. Based on the lack of fundamentals and attention to details this year, and some of the rumors of clubhouse disfunction, it’s fair to wonder if he still has that attribute. His in game decisions and bullpen management leave a lot to be desired. If he’s not the guy to lead us to a World Series, when do you make that change? I’m not saying he has to be fired, but I don’t understand the group of people on OH who refuse to consider the possibility. It’s just sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending nobody is talking. Also, this can’t be solely the result of injuries. That didn’t cause Adley to turn into the worst hitter on the team. Or Cowser and Santander to swing out of their shoes with a runner on 3rd and less than two outs. 
 

Something is rotten and to pretend it’s not even possible that the manager has lost control is a disservice to the team. I’m hoping Elias takes a wholesale look at what went wrong and makes appropriate changes. 

[Spy Fox]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Houston hired Dusty.   I don’t think Elias would necessarily avoid an old school manager.  I doubt it would be Dusty or Buck, however.   Anyway, that’s a problem for sometime in the future.   

Someone suggested Maddon in one of the other Fire Hyde threads. 

Maybe he's not "old school" (though he is old). But I think he's a more likely name to be in the mix, if they do make a change in the next couple years and decide to go with a name brand manager. 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, waroriole said:

It’s not just about the collapse this year. He’s objectively a poor manager. His best attribute has been the respect he seemed to receive from his players. Based on the lack of fundamentals and attention to details this year, and some of the rumors of clubhouse disfunction, it’s fair to wonder if he still has that attribute. His in game decisions and bullpen management leave a lot to be desired. If he’s not the guy to lead us to a World Series, when do you make that change? I’m not saying he has to be fired, but I don’t understand the group of people on OH who refuse to consider the possibility. It’s just sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending nobody is talking. Also, this can’t be solely the result of injuries. That didn’t cause Adley to turn into the worst hitter on the team. Or Cowser and Santander to swing out of their shoes with a runner on 3rd and less than two outs. 
 

Something is rotten and to pretend it’s not even possible that the manager has lost control is a disservice to the team. I’m hoping Elias takes a wholesale look at what went wrong and makes appropriate changes. 

He's objectively poor based on what?  Second guessing bullpen moves?  Was he a bad manager in 2022 or 2023, he's all of a sudden lost the attributes of being a good manager?

Adley isn't the worst hitter on the team, that's not accurate.  There's probably 3 guys ahead of him.

Cowser and Tony have always swung out of their shoes.  Hyde can't fix who these guys are.

Just like you don't understand the group of people who refuse to consider the possibility, I don't understand the group of people who so want to quickly overlook the fact that there have been a ridiculous amount of injuries and prospects haven't lived up to their billing this year.  People seem to expect that the train should just keep rolling no matter what.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

Someone suggested Maddon in one of the other Fire Hyde threads. 

Maybe he's not "old school" (though he is old). But I think he's a more likely name to be in the mix, if they do make a change in the next couple years and decide to go with a name brand manager. 

Looking forward to Maddon and his pajama days and trips to the zoo.

[webbrick2010]

Not for this year, but I'm sure it will be evaluated in the offseason

Hell, Hyde may have had enough himself

But sometimes you do need to make a change just to get a fresh start/perspective.

[LookinUp]

I would absolutely fire him for one simple reason...I can't identify what value he provides FOR the team.

Sure, he can put in the lineup that Sig's models spit out. Yes, he's playing half a roster that we didn't anticipate playing. But what is he doing to fix the problems?

Is he fixing Adley's lazy pitch framing? Is he stepping in when guys aren't running out ground balls? Is he helping with our plate approach at all? Does he do anything for the pitching? Does he even stand up for his guys when the umps are having a bad day? Do we move runners? Do we have a 2 strike approach? Why are SOOOO many hitters looking like they have an all or nothing approach? Why are SOOO many elite prospects sucking? Maybe it is the hitting coach, but the head coach certainly isn't part of the solution. 

I think Hyde's an observer. Good guy who rode the coattails of a lot of young talent and analytics to a lot of wins. But I don't see him as a problem solver. 

I'd fire him.

[Spy Fox]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Looking forward to Maddon and his pajama days and trips to the zoo.

When we win, he will be a genius for keeping the team light and sharp. 

When we lose, he will be an unserious lollygagger who needs to put his foot down. 

As it should be. 

[bpilktree67]

41 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No one has to be a fall guy. That’s Carolina Panthers stuff…that’s how you get a poor org.

They just need to be better and do more in the offseason.

 

I agree unless Rubenstein is the same as Tepper and wants his guys instead of Hyde.  I havent seen that yet but you never know with new owners taking over they may want there stamp on the franchise.  

[bpilktree67]

13 minutes ago, waroriole said:

It’s not just about the collapse this year. He’s objectively a poor manager. His best attribute has been the respect he seemed to receive from his players. Based on the lack of fundamentals and attention to details this year, and some of the rumors of clubhouse disfunction, it’s fair to wonder if he still has that attribute. His in game decisions and bullpen management leave a lot to be desired. If he’s not the guy to lead us to a World Series, when do you make that change? I’m not saying he has to be fired, but I don’t understand the group of people on OH who refuse to consider the possibility. It’s just sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending nobody is talking. Also, this can’t be solely the result of injuries. That didn’t cause Adley to turn into the worst hitter on the team. Or Cowser and Santander to swing out of their shoes with a runner on 3rd and less than two outs. 
 

Something is rotten and to pretend it’s not even possible that the manager has lost control is a disservice to the team. I’m hoping Elias takes a wholesale look at what went wrong and makes appropriate changes. 

Poor managers dont win 90-95 games a year over a 2 or 3 year period.  

[LGOrioles]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

This is such a FM afternoon drive sports talk radio take.  C'mon, he guides a team in 2022 that had no business finishing over .500 into an 83 win season, they win the division last year and all of that is wiped out by a bad couple months?

This whole thing is silly.  "Fire the manager" is one of the dumbest hot takes in a society filled with dumb sports-related hot takes.  Sometimes it's warranted but in this case it ain't.  

I get it, everyone's pissed, everyone's upset, everyone wants a "fall guy" or a whipping boy or someone to blame for this.  But this is baseball, the injuries are too severe to overcome and the supposed stud rookies aren't close to being ready.  "Fire the manager" doesn't do anything to alleviate any of those things.

Go find a fall guy somewhere else.

The problem is that the injuries shouldn’t be too much to overcome. A Yankees team last year with zero depth (only one player besides Judge with a WAR over 2) had a .538 win percentage with him and a .446 win percentage without him. The Orioles had a .662 win percentage through 74 games and have a .455 win percentage since then. 

Mountcastle has only missed a month. Urias has missed a few weeks. Rodriguez and Westburg have missed a month and a half. Coulombe is the only player who really has been hurt this whole slump. Everyone else has been healthy for about half of that slump, if not more. There’s zero excuse for them to be this bad. And this has nothing to do with Hyde, just saying that injuries are an easy excuse and other top teams have dealt with them much better than the Orioles have. 

[Spy Fox]

6 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

I agree unless Rubenstein is the same as Tepper and wants his guys instead of Hyde.  I havent seen that yet but you never know with new owners taking over they may want there stamp on the franchise.  

You're right that you never know, but I think Rubenstein has said pretty clearly he wants to leave the baseball decisions to the baseball folks. So that's a good sign. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, LGOrioles said:

The problem is that the injuries shouldn’t be too much to overcome. A Yankees team last year with zero depth (only one player besides Judge with a WAR over 2) had a .538 win percentage with him and a .446 win percentage without him. The Orioles had a .662 win percentage through 74 games and have a .455 win percentage since then. 

Mountcastle has only missed a month. Urias has missed a few weeks. Rodriguez and Westburg have missed a month and a half. Coulombe is the only player who really has been hurt this whole slump. Everyone else has been healthy for about half of that slump, if not more. There’s zero excuse for them to be this bad. And this has nothing to do with Hyde, just saying that injuries are an easy excuse and other top teams have dealt with them much better than the Orioles have. 

I basically agree.  The injuries have hurt, but subpar performances by healthy players has also been a big problem.