Do the Orioles need someone like Machado?

[JR Oriole]

9 hours ago, Hallas said:

I still think Soto (Juan, not any of the others) checks off all the boxes here.  Insanely productive, plays hard, can rub opponents the wrong way on the field but is generally liked off of it.

He has been great to watch ever since he came up in Washington. Every time he works a walk, he stares down the pitcher with this "you walked me because you are afraid of me because I am so much better than you" look and I love it.  Guy has confidence that is off the charts and even though his defense is not ideal, I think he is well worth whatever anyone pays him.  

[Ripken]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Where are you going to find that?

Thankfully he wasn't wearing a joke t-shirt!!

[Aristotelian]

55 minutes ago, JR Oriole said:

He has been great to watch ever since he came up in Washington. Every time he works a walk, he stares down the pitcher with this "you walked me because you are afraid of me because I am so much better than you" look and I love it.  Guy has confidence that is off the charts and even though his defense is not ideal, I think he is well worth whatever anyone pays him.  

Soto will be worth it for a few years, no question. The risk is on the back end. Trout was a better defender with similar hitting profile when he signed at a similar age. Trout still has some value depending on health but there is no way anyone would sign him to the 6/$222m he has left. Is the surplus value on the front end worth the risk of basically a Chris Davis contract on the back end?

[TommyPickles]

Yes. And I think Manny gets way too much hate from the MLB media. When Bryce Harper does the same type of stuff he's a "fierce competitor." When Machado does it he's the enfant terrible of the league... Honestly seems like a double standard to me.

The whole throwing the ball at Dave Roberts "scandal" was such bull shit. 

 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by TommyPickles

[Can_of_corn]

22 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Yes. And I think Manny gets way too much hate from the MLB media. When Bryce Harper does the same type of stuff he's a "fierce competitor." When Machado does it he's the enfant terrible of the league... Honestly seems like a double standard to me.

The whole throwing the ball at Dave Roberts "scandal" was such bull shit. 

 

 

 

That Rosenthal piece was horrid.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That Rosenthal piece was horrid.

Is Britt the only good MLB journo at this point? 

[JR Oriole]

27 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Soto will be worth it for a few years, no question. The risk is on the back end. Trout was a better defender with similar hitting profile when he signed at a similar age. Trout still has some value depending on health but there is no way anyone would sign him to the 6/$222m he has left. Is the surplus value on the front end worth the risk of basically a Chris Davis contract on the back end?

What is crazy is that Soto won't be 26 for another couple of weeks.  Guy has been an absolute force on offense for 7 seasons already and he is almost a year younger than Adley.  There is always risk tied to the back end of big contracts, but I would hate to constantly pass on players like this just because we are always afraid of the next Chris Davis (who really fell off the cliff in his age 32 season).  I don't think we will be in play for a Soto type player anyhow, and I certainly understand that management has to focus on finances and the budgets. But as a fan, all I care about is winning games and October success. Whether the Os have a payroll of $50 million, $150 million, or $500 million, I really don't care as long as they bring a championship to Baltimore.  Flags fly forever.  

[BRobinsonfan]

21 hours ago, Gurgi said:

A very emotionally explosive player that will punch people right in the face?  I fear we are filled with too many mega religious Lego playing softie white bread error machines.  What is the saying about nice guys finish last?  Frank Robinson was famous for being rough.  83 team was famous for being fun and great team mates but no one ever said they were just a bunch of super nice guys.  

I would rather be winning playoff games and be thought of as a bunch of douche bags than keep losing.  I want to be the 86 Mets not this clown show we have.  

I guess we need some more cocaine if we are going to be the 86 Mets.  This team is soft soft soft like baby poop.  

Hyde cant be the guy to lead us anywhere.  Get a Davey Johnson or a Billy Martin.  

I disagree with your conclusion but I'm appropriating this line over the next couple of weeks:  "mega religious Lego playing softie white bread error machines."   

[interloper]

14 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

I disagree with your conclusion but I'm appropriating this line over the next couple of weeks:  "mega religious Lego playing softie white bread error machines."   

Lol. It did make me chuckle I admit. 

[AdamK]

Manny burned my bridge with his conduct. I know I shouldn't care but I do. Such a bummer because he was electric before the antics and antics and antics and antics and I can't divorce his behavior from his performance.

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Soto will be worth it for a few years, no question. The risk is on the back end. Trout was a better defender with similar hitting profile when he signed at a similar age. Trout still has some value depending on health but there is no way anyone would sign him to the 6/$222m he has left. Is the surplus value on the front end worth the risk of basically a Chris Davis contract on the back end?

Is there a reason to think he’ll end up as decimated physically as Trout has been? 

Trout makes the point that you can’t just assume good health for position players until their 30s. But he’s a pretty extraordinary case, from the standpoint of how injuries have ravaged his career. I can’t think of many (any?) similar examples of guys in recent years who were still good from age 26-32 but just couldn’t get on the field. 

From a performance standpoint, despite the injuries, he’s still been exceptional. Which is typically the case for these legendary HOF type players. The skills don’t seem to erode at the same rate that they do for ordinary players — or maybe more accurately, even when they do erode to some extent, they’re still elite players. Despite battling major injury issues for the entire period of time, Trout has a 168 OPS+ during the 6 years of this contract. That would make him basically the best hitter in the history of our franchise, roughly equivalent to Frank Robinson’s line in Baltimore. 

I’d rather go 10 than 12 for Soto, and I’d rather be closer to $40M than $50M. But if there was a deal to be made in the general neighborhood of 10/$400M, I think that’s a risk a team should be willing to take. There are very few genuine high-end HOF players in the league at any given time. This guy is one of them. He’s a machine at the plate, and aside from Barry Bonds, he’s hands down the greatest OBP player in the last 50 years of the sport. Having a player like that changes your entire lineup.

As long as Rubenstein can commit to having at least two mega-contracts on the payroll, with one likely reserved for Gunnar, you’re probably not going to do better than Soto for the second one.

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, interloper said:

Is Britt the only good MLB journo at this point? 

I like Passan.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

Is there a reason to think he’ll end up as decimated physically as Trout has been? 

He already looks a step slow in the outfield. 

Trout has definitely been disproportionately hit by injuries going by age, but perhaps not if you go by games played. He has put a lot of miles on his legs. 

True, the median outcome for productive age is probably somewhere in between Trout and Nelson Cruz.

[capyy]

yes