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Where is Our Clutch Hitting Late in Games?

Old#5fan

By Old#5fan
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BRobinsonfan All-Star

BRobinsonfan

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So...what does that mean? Markakis has as many good seasons in three years as Mora does in his entire career. If Mora has a lot of experience at being a worse player than Markakis, how is that valuable?

Also, Mora... as much as I like him... is on the way down and Markakis in on the way up.

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ugen64 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

ugen64

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FanGraphs measures Clutch too :-)

This season

Top 5: Jones, Huff, Mora, Montanez, Roberts

Bottom 5: Markakis, Zaun, Scott, Andino, Freel

2008

Top 5: Mora, Luis Hernandez, Ramon Hernandez, Salazar, Roberts

Bottom 4: Huff, Millar, Markakis, Scott (the only significant values - everyone else was around average)

Just for fun :)

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BRobinsonfan All-Star

BRobinsonfan

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FanGraphs measures Clutch too :-)

This season

Top 5: Jones, Huff, Mora, Montanez, Roberts

Bottom 5: Markakis, Zaun, Scott, Andino, Freel

2008

Top 5: Mora, Luis Hernandez, Ramon Hernandez, Salazar, Roberts

Bottom 4: Huff, Millar, Markakis, Scott (the only significant values - everyone else was around average)

Just for fun :)

When I think Luis Hernandez I think "Clutch" :D

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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So...what does that mean? Markakis has as many good seasons in three years as Mora does in his entire career. If Mora has a lot of experience at being a worse player than Markakis, how is that valuable?

Mora has shown to be better at hitting with RISP longer than Markakis has to be specific.

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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FanGraphs measures Clutch too :-)

This season

Top 5: Jones, Huff, Mora, Montanez, Roberts

Bottom 5: Markakis, Zaun, Scott, Andino, Freel

2008

Top 5: Mora, Luis Hernandez, Ramon Hernandez, Salazar, Roberts

Bottom 4: Huff, Millar, Markakis, Scott (the only significant values - everyone else was around average)

Just for fun :)

You are treading in dangerous territory let me warn you as you have pointed out that Nick Markakis is not as great as he is touted here in the clutch, which is easily observed if you take off the biased glasses so many choose to wear when it comes to him.:eek: I hope great woe to you doesn't follow for merely pointing this out! :eektf:

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Mora has shown to be better at hitting with RISP longer than Markakis has to be specific.

Not really. Mora is a career .279/.355/.442 hitter. In RISP situations he hits .280/.369/.413. Basically, he's the same guy. In Late & Close he's hit .249/.338/.378.

So, your idea that Mora is a particularly clutch hitter is simply wrong. What certainly is true is that he has had certain seasons, like last year, where he has hit much better in RISP situations. But he has had other seasons where he was worse in RISP situations.

This is real life in the baseball world. Some years you do better in RISP situations than in other situations, and in other years you do worse. Over a long career, chances are very good that there will be little difference between your overall numbers and your RISP numbers. The bigger the sample, the more it tends to even out, with very few exceptions.

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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Not really. Mora is a career .279/.355/.442 hitter. In RISP situations he hits .280/.369/.413. Basically, he's the same guy. In Late & Close he's hit .249/.338/.378.

So, your idea that Mora is a particularly clutch hitter is simply wrong. What certainly is true is that he has had certain seasons, like last year, where he has hit much better in RISP situations. But he has had other seasons where he was worse in RISP situations.

This is real life in the baseball world. Some years you do better in RISP situations than in other situations, and in other years you do worse. Over a long career, chances are very good that there will be little difference between your overall numbers and your RISP numbers. The bigger the sample, the more it tends to even out, with very few exceptions.

I was just going by what DT was saying at a press conference the other day on MASN. He was saying Melvin is a great hitter with RISP and he was really missed when he was on the DL and he hoped he would soon get back on track as the great clutch hitter he is.

So I guess I shouldn't listen to what DT spouts anymore eh as apparently he also doesn't seem to know what he is talking about either?

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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I was just going by what DT was saying at a press conference the other day on MASN. He was saying Melvin is a great hitter with RISP and he was really missed when he was on the DL and he hoped he would soon get back on track as the great clutch hitter he is.

So I guess I shouldn't listen to what DT spouts anymore eh?

Trust but verify. Most times a guy in a press conference doesn't have the numbers in front of him, and probably doesn't have infallible memory, so he'll go with his gut. And everybody's gut is sometimes inaccurate, sometimes wrong.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Not really. Mora is a career .279/.355/.442 hitter. In RISP situations he hits .280/.369/.413. Basically, he's the same guy. In Late & Close he's hit .249/.338/.378.

So, your idea that Mora is a particularly clutch hitter is simply wrong. What certainly is true is that he has had certain seasons, like last year, where he has hit much better in RISP situations. But he has had other seasons where he was worse in RISP situations.

This is real life in the baseball world. Some years you do better in RISP situations than in other situations, and in other years you do worse. Over a long career, chances are very good that there will be little difference between your overall numbers and your RISP numbers. The bigger the sample, the more it tends to even out, with very few exceptions.

Come on Frobby, just stop trying.

He doesn't want to understand this. He just wants to keep everybody infuriatingly frustrated with how obtuse he pretends to be.

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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Come on Frobby, just stop trying.

He doesn't want to understand this. He just wants to keep everybody infuriatingly frustrated with how obtuse he pretends to be.

Yeah that's it.:( Are you going to send me a bill now for your unsolicited psycho-analysis?:rolleyes::rolleyestf: I would much prefer just talking Orioles baseball.

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Flosman Major Leaguer

Flosman

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Mora has shown to be better at hitting with RISP longer than Markakis has to be specific.

I am sitting here at work and I had a feeling that old fan had finally got me on my over the top opinion of Nick. He provided proof that Nick is not has good as Mora in the RISP situation.

08

Nick 306/406/491 897

Mora 285/342/483 825

09

Nick 410/468/821 1.289

Mora 318/364/600 964

Three year total

Nick 292/392/477 869

Mora 315/402/441 843

I think these numbers prove something to me. That is when oldfan makes a post on this my idiot alarm should be going off.:laughlol:

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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I am sitting here at work and I had a feeling that old fan had finally got me on my over the top opinion of Nick. He provided proof that Nick is not has good as Mora in the RISP situation.

08

Nick 306/406/491 897

Mora 285/342/483 825

09

Nick 410/468/821 1.289

Mora 318/364/600 964

Three year total

Nick 292/392/477 869

Mora 315/402/441 843

I think these numbers prove something to me. That is when oldfan makes a post on this my idiot alarm should be going off.:laughlol:

No need to be condescending as Frobby already posted similar stats. I guess DT's comments would also trigger your "idiot" alarm which as I already posted is what I was going by. Anyone can look up stats, but DT was specifically praising Mora for his ability to hit with RISP and being clutch. I was just going by what he said, and would prefer him in a clutch situation right now late in the game over Markakis who is hitting 158.

I don't see where that makes me an idiot. It just says I want to win the game. As far as the first third of the game I would prefer Markakis any day over Melvin.

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ledzepp8 Hangout Grand Counsel

ledzepp8

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You are treading in dangerous territory let me warn you as you have pointed out that Nick Markakis is not as great as he is touted here in the clutch, which is easily observed if you take off the biased glasses so many choose to wear when it comes to him.:eek: I hope great woe to you doesn't follow for merely pointing this out! :eektf:

You have no idea what you're talking about. What fangraphs is looking at, is how much better or worse a player does in "clutch" situations in considering whether or not they are clutch. So if Nick Markakis (or whoever) hits 330 in regular situations but hits only 315 in so called "clutch" situations, then fangraphs won't consider him clutch.

Most people would try and figure out why something would say that Luis Hernandez was more clutch than Nick Markakis because that seems a little silly. Not you though...and you say you have no agenda.:rolleyes:

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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Look at who replaced Mora.:rolleyes:

I don't disagree that overall Nick Markakis is much more of a hitting threat than Melvin Mora. But so far this season, late in the game he has not shown it at all. I mean 3/20 with all singles is terrible any way you slice it. Felix Pie couldn't do much worse than that!:eek:

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