Where is Our Clutch Hitting Late in Games?

[JimDH]

I didn't mean Kiner, I meant the guy who hit the "shot heard around the world." My brain maybe is getting feeble because I cannot think of his name right now for some reason! It wasn't Enos Slaughter but someone around that time period. I got it, Bobby Thompson!

That's a Chuck Thompson call we often hear on archives, right? Sounds like him.

[Flosman]

Depends on who you ask. Most Orioles fans consider Dempsey a great former Oriole, just not a HOFer like Brooks, Frank, Jim, Eddie, or Cal. He certainly rose to the ocasion and was "great" in the 83 WS though. That is not even questionable. Sort of the opposite of AROD.:laughlol:

Dempsey was the kind of guy all great teams have. A solid everyday player that does a couple things really well, but is a far cry from a complete player. The funny thing is a guy like that gets hot at the exact right time and he can be an all time hero. However that does not change the FACT that he could not hold Eddie's jock. Funny thing is a loud group of folks like you ran Eddie out of Baltimore and honestly made me fall away from baseball for several years.

Basically if you remember the original idea of this thread is making the same asinine comments idiots made about Eddie, now about Nick and to a lesser extent BRob. I have been quite about Brob because I think Brob is just a above average MLer who is very important to his teams success, not a bonifide superstar player. I think Huff has reasserted himself to that level. Nick and AJ (providing his progress is sustained) are on a totally different level. They are stars that without them you have NO WS level teams.

One interesting question that I would like to be asked of ML managers is who on the O's would you least like to face with the game on the line. I am just betting right now the answer would be Nick without any question, AJ is making a case that he might split the vote as early as this year. But as of today even with his current obviously horrible numbers Nick is that guy you don't want to let beat you if your the opposition. Just like Eddie was still the most feared hitter in the Baltimore lineup when the group of dolts were dogging him.

[Skeletor]

That's a Chuck Thompson call we often hear on archives, right? Sounds like him.

I think it's Red Barber.

Edit: it was Russ Hodges. I checked.

[Old#5fan]

Dempsey was the kind of guy all great teams have. A solid everyday player that does a couple things really well, but is a far cry from a complete player. The funny thing is a guy like that gets hot at the exact right time and he can be an all time hero. However that does not change the FACT that he could not hold Eddie's jock. Funny thing is a loud group of folks like you ran Eddie out of Baltimore and honestly made me fall away from baseball for several years.

Basically if you remember the original idea of this thread is making the same asinine comments idiots made about Eddie, now about Nick and to a lesser extent BRob. I have been quite about Brob because I think Brob is just a above average MLer who is very important to his teams success, not a bonifide superstar player. I think Huff has reasserted himself to that level. Nick and AJ (providing his progress is sustained) are on a totally different level. They are stars that without them you have NO WS level teams.

One interesting question that I would like to be asked of ML managers is who on the O's would you least like to face with the game on the line. I am just betting right now the answer would be Nick without any question, AJ is making a case that he might split the vote as early as this year. But as of today even with his current obviously horrible numbers Nick is that guy you don't want to let beat you if your the opposition. Just like Eddie was still the most feared hitter in the Baltimore lineup when the group of dolts were dogging him.

My guess would be in this order

1. Huff (he is a veteran hitter with much more experience than either Markakis or Jones

2. Mora (when he is hot he is the best on the team with RISP)

3. Jones (look at his C&L this year so far)

4. Markakis (his 158 isn't scaring anyone right now).

5. Roberts - he won't bunt or even threaten to and is now enamored with swinging for homers.

However, early in the game is a whole different story. Markakis would be the guy they least want to see up.

[Frobby]

I didn't mean Kiner, I meant the guy who hit the "shot heard around the world." My brain maybe is getting feeble because I cannot think of his name right now for some reason! It wasn't Enos Slaughter but someone around that time period. I got it, Bobby Thompson!

Well, Bobby Thompson had a lousy World Series after hitting that HR -- he hit .238 and had one extra base hit (a double) in 6 games. In 360 career AB in "late & close" situations, he hit .269/.329/.389, pretty much around his career averages for all situations. He only hit 9 HR in late & close situations, which is fewer than Nick Markakis already has in 272 AB. So by those measures, Thompson was not particularly clutch.

I will say this, however: Thompson was murder with runners in scoring position: .322/.384/.521, compared to his overall averages of .255/.320/.419. So in that sense, he was very clutch. Out of him, Dent, Mazerowski and Boone, he has by far the best case for arguing that his famous HR was something other than fortuitous timing.

[Old#5fan]

Well, Bobby Thompson had a lousy World Series after hitting that HR -- he hit .238 and had one extra base hit (a double) in 6 games. In 360 career AB in "late & close" situations, he hit .269/.329/.389, pretty much around his career averages for all situations. He only hit 9 HR in late & close situations, which is fewer than Nick Markakis already has in 272 AB. So by those measures, Thompson was not particularly clutch.

I will say this, however: Thompson was murder with runners in scoring position: .322/.384/.521, compared to his overall averages of .255/.320/.419. So in that sense, he was very clutch. Out of him, Dent, Mazerowski and Boone, he has by far the best case for arguing that his famous HR was something other than fortuitous timing.

As the little old man used to say on Laugh-In (the tv show) - Veeeeeeery Interesting!:clap3:

[JimDH]

I think it's Red Barber.

Edit: it was Russ Hodges. I checked.

Thanks. The call I must have been thinking of was Mazeroski's HR in 1960

[ledzepp8]

This sums up how you evaluate players. You can't look at the entirety of what they do, you pick one antecdote and define the player by that moment. While if another better player has not had a MOMENT that YOU remember has great in your feeble mind they just are not very good. I remember Matt Riley striking out the side against the MFY but I am not at all confused by that moment into thinking he was a great pitcher. You also demonstrate that you can not even understand when someone tries to point this out to you. Drungo was not saying there were not great moments at allstar games, he was saying using the allstar game as a tool in measuring proformance was something only a total idiot would do. I agree with him BTW even though there have been great proformances in the past during that showcase.

This is quite possibly the best post in the thread.

[ledzepp8]

My guess would be in this order

1. Huff (he is a veteran hitter with much more experience than either Markakis or Jones

2. Mora (when he is hot he is the best on the team with RISP)

3. Jones (look at his C&L this year so far)

4. Markakis (his 158 isn't scaring anyone right now).

5. Roberts - he won't bunt or even threaten to and is now enamored with swinging for homers.

However, early in the game is a whole different story. Markakis would be the guy they least want to see up.

Woah hold up. Mora has only a 657 OPS this year in close and late situations. How come you put more emphasis on his career numbers in those situations and disregard the small sample size from this season, while you think Markakis' 20 close and late ABs this year are indicative of what's to come in his career?

Your agenda is so transparent it's not funny.

[Old#5fan]

Woah hold up. Mora has only a 657 OPS this year in close and late situations. How come you put more emphasis on his career numbers in those situations and disregard the small sample size from this season, while you think Markakis' 20 close and late ABs this year are indicative of what's to come in his career?

Your agenda is so transparent it's not funny.

Who do you think you are? Oliver Stone, with your agenda silliness? There is no agenda. I just expressed an honest opinion here and gave my reasoning. I know Mora has been struggling but so has Markakis in close and late situations this year so far. As a result, if given a choice I would go with the more veteran Mora and that is the only reason - experience.

[ledzepp8]

Who do you think you are? Oliver Stone, with your agenda silliness? There is no agenda. I just expressed an honest opinion here and gave my reasoning. I know Mora has been struggling but so has Markakis in close and late situations this year so far. As a result, if given a choice I would go with the more veteran Mora and that is the only reason - experience.

Let me dumb down your argument even more.

This is what you're saying in other words:

I don't care what Markakis has done throughout his career in close and late situations, all I care about is what he's done in 20 ABs this season.

I don't care what Mora has done in a 13 ABs in close and late situations this season, all I care about is what he's done throughout his career.

Do you not see how contradictory that is? I'll ask again, how are you able to breathe?

[terpoh]

Who do you think you are? Oliver Stone, with your agenda silliness? There is no agenda. I just expressed an honest opinion here and gave my reasoning. I know Mora has been struggling but so has Markakis in close and late situations this year so far. As a result, if given a choice I would go with the more veteran Mora and that is the only reason - experience.

This is Nick's 4th year in the league. He's spent more time in the majors then he did in the minors. I'd say he's pretty much a veteran with experience too.

[ledzepp8]

You're right. His argument is horribly inconsistent (as they all tend to be)

Breathing is an involuntary process. If the brain had much to do with it, well, I just let you finish that thought.

You're right and lucky for him.

[Old#5fan]

This is Nick's 4th year in the league. He's spent more time in the majors then he did in the minors. I'd say he's pretty much a veteran with experience too.

Yeah, but less than half of what Melvin has in years. Melvin is a seasoned vet and Markakis is not.

[Knife_Dixon]

Yeah, but less than half of what Melvin has in years. Melvin is a seasoned vet and Markakis is not.

So...what does that mean? Markakis has as many good seasons in three years as Mora does in his entire career. If Mora has a lot of experience at being a worse player than Markakis, how is that valuable?