Where is Our Clutch Hitting Late in Games?

[Frobby]

Sure I will. I don't value OPS in the least when it comes to close and late hitting stats. Who wants a walk out of Markakis when a two run homer is needed like Damon or Young produced anyway? .

Sigh, do you bother to read? Markakis' Late & Close career line is .326/.404/.514. You don't bat .326 from drawing walks. You don't slug .514 from drawing walks, either.

Meanwhile, Damon's .764 OPS Late & Close breaks down .271/.356/.409, and Young's .683 breaks down .268/.306/.377. Nick hits for far higher average, and hits with far more power, than either Damon or Young in late and close situations.

I supported you in this thread when I thought you deserved support, but now you are taking this off the rails. I agree that Markakis has not done well in a very limited number of late & close situations this year, but your effort to try to draw some grand conclusion about that is meritless.

[Dr. FLK]

Sure I will. I don't value OPS in the least when it comes to close and late hitting stats. Who wants a walk out of Markakis when a two run homer is needed like Damon or Young produced anyway? Your top hitters need to actually get big HITs not walks when the game is on the line unless they simply don't get any pitches good enough to hit.

If only OPS could somehow be modified to take Slug % into account...:scratchchinhmm:

[Mackus]

Sigh, do you bother to read? Markakis' Late & Close career line is .326/.404/.514. You don't bat .326 from drawing walks. You don't slug .514 from drawing walks, either.

Meanwhile, Damon's .764 OPS Late & Close breaks down .271/.356/.409, and Young's .683 breaks down .268/.306/.377. Nick hits for far higher average, and hits with far more power, than either Damon or Young in late and close situations.

I supported you in this thread when I thought you deserved support, but now you are taking this off the rails. I agree that Markakis has not done well in a very limited number of late & close situations this year, but your effort to try to draw some grand conclusion about that is meritless.

In addition to having a higher batting averge, higher OBP, and higher SLG in Late & Close situations than overall, Markakis has hit 11 HR in 320 Late & Close PAs, one every 29 PAs. For his career, he's hit 65 HR in 2092 PAs, one every 32 PAs. So he hits HRs more often in Close & Late situations than he does overall, but of course, he's not clutch at all.

I suggest everyone put OldFan on ignore. It'll make everyone's lives better. He doesn't want to actually discuss anything, he just wants to get a rise out of people. Nobody could deny the information that's been put in front of him in this thread if they actually wanted to have a legitimate conversation. He's solely trying to agitate people with his ignorance, whether it be real or feigned.

[Old#5fan]

Markakis has hit 11 HR in 320 Late & Close PAs, one every 29 PAs. For his career, he's hit 65 HR in 2092 PAs, one every 32 PAs. So he hits HRs more often in Close & Late situations than he does overall, but of course, he's not clutch at all.

Not this year so far. Isn't he 3/20 with three singles? I don't know why everyone is arguing about his career stats? The problem is right now what he is doing which is terrible!

[Old#5fan]

Sigh, do you bother to read? Markakis' Late & Close career line is .326/.404/.514. You don't bat .326 from drawing walks. You don't slug .514 from drawing walks, either.

Meanwhile, Damon's .764 OPS Late & Close breaks down .271/.356/.409, and Young's .683 breaks down .268/.306/.377. Nick hits for far higher average, and hits with far more power, than either Damon or Young in late and close situations.

I supported you in this thread when I thought you deserved support, but now you are taking this off the rails. I agree that Markakis has not done well in a very limited number of late & close situations this year, but your effort to try to draw some grand conclusion about that is meritless.

Yeah, but the point they are ignoring which irritates the living daylights out of me is Markakis hasn't had nearly the PA's that Young and Damon have. Yet everyone wants to act like he has.

At the rate he is going right now his close and late stats are dropping like a cannonball. So that is what is very worrisome. Not his career numbers which to me seem very inflated. If he ends up playing til age 36 with career close and late stats like Young or Damon I will be elated with Nick Markakis.

Of course he has one big disadvantage and that is unlike Young or Damon, he is unable to feast on wretched Orioles pitching!

[Dr. FLK]

Not this year so far. Isn't he 3/20 with three singles? I don't know why everyone is arguing about his career stats. The problem is right now.

Seriously...everyone knows the saying "you're only as good as your last 20 ABs...";)

[ejf1025]

Yeah, but the point they are ignoring with irritates the living daylights out of me is Markakis hasn't had nearly the PA's that Young and Damon have. Yet everyone wants to act like he has. At the rate he is going right now his stats are dropping like a cannonball. So that is what is very worrisome. Not his career numbers which to me seem very inflated.

Wow. Now you are just reaching and selectively picking stats to fit your argument.

I don't even know what you are trying to get at at this point....

Markakis's career numbers (which completely refute your claims) are inflated and not useful because you're talking about the here and now...so you are using the 20 ABs to insinuate that he is not clutch and not giving max effort because he has a fat contract and a pretty wife?

I mean...WTF?

And you're comparing him to two notoriously awful production vs contract players in Damon and Young...?

Seriously?

[Frobby]

Yeah, but the point they are ignoring with irritates the living daylights out of me is Markakis hasn't had nearly the PA's that Young and Damon have. Yet everyone wants to act like he has. At the rate he is going right now his stats are dropping like a cannonball. So that is what is very worrisome. Not his career numbers which to me seem very inflated.

His career numbers are what they are. They are not inflated, any more than this year's numbers are inflated.

You tell me, in terms of predicting the future, would you rather rely on a career sample of 276 at bats, or a six-week sample of 20 at bats?

Look, facts are facts. Nick Markakis, and practically everyone else on the team, have done a lousy job in late & close situations in the first 32 games of 2009. That is undeniable.

But if the issue is, what is likely to happen in the remaining 130 games of 2009, over the next 4-1/2 months, it would be ridiculous to ignore prior performance and look only at the small sample from this year.

[Old#5fan]

His career numbers are what they are. They are not inflated, any more than this year's numbers are inflated.

You tell me, in terms of predicting the future, would you rather rely on a career sample of 276 at bats, or a six-week sample of 20 at bats?

Look, facts are facts. Nick Markakis, and practically everyone else on the team, have done a lousy job in late & close situations in the first 32 games of 2009. That is undeniable.

But if the issue is, what is likely to happen in the remaining 130 games of 2009, over the next 4-1/2 months, it would be ridiculous to ignore prior performance and look only at the small sample from this year.

I don't disagree with you but isn't it also possible that Markakis isn't truly as good a Close and Late Hitter as his career stats seem to indicate which BTW are rapidly dropping if he continues on his 3/20 singles path so far this season?

[blueberryale77]

I can see how Johnny Damon got to be known as a clutch player in the popular consciousness, but Michael Young? What has he ever won other than the aforementioned fat contract?

[Old#5fan]

I can see how Johnny Damon got to be known as a clutch player in the popular consciousness, but Michael Young? What has he ever won other than the aforementioned fat contract?

Do you watch the All-star games? I know several times Young has come through with big hits in the annual classic, and usually in clutch situations. He also, like Damon seems to be an Oriole killer in those situations as well as does Carlos Pena. Those guys always stand out because they produce when it counts the most, although I do agree that Damon only seems to do it against the Orioles. I don't see him being that clutch against a lot of other teams. Perhaps our scouting of how to pitch him is bad.

[blueberryale77]

Do you watch the All-star games? I know several times Young has come through with big hits in the annual classic, and usually in clutch situations. He also, like Damon seems to be an Oriole killer in those situations as well as does Carlos Pena.

All-Star games? Really? That's kind of like saying someone's a mediocre actor but he gives a heck of an Oscar speech. How does that help his team?

[Old#5fan]

All-Star games? Really? That's kind of like saying someone's a mediocre actor but he gives a heck of an Oscar speech. How does that help his team?

It has helped the AL win and get the home field in the WS so isn't that helping his team? Also, in an AS game it is the best facing the best. Hence it to me at least shows a sampling of who has the most talent.

[Frobby]

I don't disagree with you but isn't it also possible that Markakis isn't truly as good a Close and Late Hitter as his career stats seem to indicate which BTW are rapidly dropping if he continues on his 3/20 singles path so far this season?

I don't know what more I can say. For >99% of all players, the longer they play, the more their stats in any particular situation will look like their overall career stats. So, most players who have long careers will have "clutch" numbers very similar to their overall numbers. That's true whether the player is very good, or just so-so. So I have no reason to think that, in the long run, Nick Markakis will hit any better or worse "late & close" than he does overall. (Well, in reality, you would expect any player to do slightly worse in those situations, because the best relievers are in the games in those situations and their ERA's tend to be lower than the average pitcher.) Nick's "late & close" numbers for his career are a little better than his overall career numbers, but for purposes of predicing the future, his overall numbers are the best predicter.

[blueberryale77]

It has helped the AL win and get the home field in the WS so isn't that helping his team? Also, in an AS game it is the best facing the best. Hence it to me at least shows a sampling of who has the most talent.

Not if he doesn't help his team get to the World Series. :laughlol:

So wait, now you're saying that Young is superior to Markakis and Roberts because he has more talent? I thought it was because unlike them he works hard, comes through in the clutch, and cares about something other than hot contracts and fat wives.