Where is Our Clutch Hitting Late in Games?

[ShaneDawg85]

It has helped the AL win and get the home field in the WS so isn't that helping his team? Also, in an AS game it is the best facing the best. Hence it to me at least shows a sampling of who has the most talent.

No, it doesn't. Unless his team made the World Series, it is completely inconsequential and irrelevant for him. I'm sure he cares dearly about helping the Red Soxs et al earn home field advantage in the World Series. I mean, that's why they play the game.

[Dr. FLK]

At the rate he is going right now his close and late stats are dropping like a cannonball. So that is what is very worrisome.

CANNONBALL!

So far, he has had success. But, this year obviously signifies the beginning of the end. So far this season, Nick has had the following averages per AB in close-late situations: 0.15H/AB, 0XBH/AB, .005 RBI/AB, 0BB/AB.

I think it's safe to say we can assume he'll keep up that level of production for his next 275 ABs in close-late situations because we have actually watched him be so bad with our own eyes. So, after those next 275 ABs, his career numbers in close-late situations will look like:

OBP: 284 (OUCH)

SLUG: 385 (OUCH)

OPS: 669 (OUCH)

RBI: 56 (OUCH)

HR: 11 (OUCH)

Based on my in-depth analysis, I suggest we drop him to 9th in the lineup to minimize his ABs.

[Old#5fan]

No, it doesn't. Unless his team made the World Series, it is completely inconsequential and irrelevant for him. I'm sure he cares dearly about helping the Red Soxs et al earn home field advantage in the World Series. I mean, that's why they play the game.

So you think that getting a big hit in an AS game is inconsequential an irrelevant to all players or just Michael Young for some reason? If you think the best players in the game aren't competitive in that game than I must refer you to try looking up the AS game (on video) where Pete Rose trampled over Ray Fosse. I watched that game as it occurred. Then tell me that the players view this game as inconsequential and irrelevant.:rolleyestf: I have no idea why you would come up with such a distorted viewpoint?

[ejf1025]

I don't disagree with you but isn't it also possible that Markakis isn't truly as good a Close and Late Hitter as his career stats seem to indicate which BTW are rapidly dropping if he continues on his 3/20 singles path so far this season?

Can you just bottomline this and get to what exactly your point is?

I'm assuming it's: That Nick Markakis is not playing well in the clutch right now, and that you fear this is actually the "real" Nick Markakis as opposed to the one shown in his career numbers.

If that's the case, fine, I think you are wrong and agenda-biased, but that's your opinion.

But you really seem to be suggesting a lot more than just that...i.e. that he is not an All-Star because of this (your own Brooks also wasnt clutch so I hope he's been lessened in your eyes as well), that ASG performance is a great barometer of player ability, that we will regret his contract, that he is not trying because he got paid and married, that Michael Young/Johnny Damon have more value....

[ejf1025]

So you think that getting a big hit in an AS game is inconsequential an irrelevant to all players or just Michael Young for some reason? If you think the best players in the game aren't competitive in that game than I must refer you to try looking up the AS game (on video) where Pete Rose trampled over Ray Fosse. I watched that game as it occurred. Then tell me that the players view this game as inconsequential and irrelevant.:rolleyestf:

WAIT A MINUTE....

Didn't you early say that players don't try hard anymore becaue they now get paid with LT deals??

So, you think these players that tank it during the 7-8-9 inning of meaningful games because they're fat and happy...ramp it up a notch in the exhibition ASG?

I'd also like to cite for you the examples where the game wasnt taking serously (and it should be noted that nobody expected Rose to hit Fosse like that and it was probably unneccessary):

John Kruk faking a heartache

Larry Walker putting his helmet on backward and batting righty

Barry Bonds play wrestling with Torri Hunter after he stole a homerun

DECLARING A TIE!

THEY HAD TO CREATE A WHOLE BS "HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE"/"THIS TIME IT COUNTS" AD CAMPAIGN BECAUSE NOBODY WAS TAKING IT SERIOUSLY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

[Old#5fan]

Can you just bottomline this and get to what exactly your point is?

I'm assuming it's: That Nick Markakis is not playing well in the clutch right now, and that you fear this is actually the "real" Nick Markakis as opposed to the one shown in his career numbers.

If that's the case, fine, I think you are wrong and agenda-biased, but that's your opinion.

But you really seem to be suggesting a lot more than just that...i.e. that he is not an All-Star because of this (your own Brooks also wasnt clutch so I hope he's been lessened in your eyes as well), that ASG performance is a great barometer of player ability, that we will regret his contract, that he is not trying because he got paid and married, that Michael Young/Johnny Damon have more value....

Actually, I think Markakis is trying hard and actually could be trying too hard in Close and Late situations which could be the reason he is doing so poorly. He seems to me to be a player who hits better in the clutch out of the two hole for some reason although I haven't looked that information up, I suspect I am right. I really think he and Jones should be reversed now in the lineup. I think if that happened Markakis will immediately improve in the C and L or clutch hitting department.

Brian Roberts is the one who I think we will regret his contract, not Markakis as Roberts is showing signs of being a primma donna. Not running out balls, lolligagging on making throws, and trying to hit homers while refusing to lay down a bunt or work on same to get hits. I was only sort of joking around earlier about Markakis and his new contract and wife, but I am really much more seriously concerned about Roberts. He just doesn't seem right since he got married and the LT deal. He is the one who needs either a swift kick in the rump or a fire lit under his proverbial little tail by DT, not Markakis.

[Mackus]

WAIT A MINUTE....

Didn't you early say that players don't try hard anymore becaue they now get paid with LT deals??

So, you think these players that tank it during the 7-8-9 inning of meaningful games because they're fat and happy...ramp it up a notch in the exhibition ASG?

I'd also like to cite for you the examples where the game wasnt taking serously (and it should be noted that nobody expected Rose to hit Fosse like that and it was probably unneccessary):

John Kruk faking a heartache

Larry Walker putting his helmet on backward and batting righty

Barry Bonds play wrestling with Torri Hunter after he stole a homerun

DECLARING A TIE!

THEY HAD TO CREATE A WHOLE BS "HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE"/"THIS TIME IT COUNTS" AD CAMPAIGN BECAUSE NOBODY WAS TAKING IT SERIOUSLY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

Just please stop. He's goading you.

[ejf1025]

Actually, I think Markakis is trying hard and actually could be trying too hard in Close and Late situations which could be the reason he is doing so poorly. He seems to me to be a player who hits better in the clutch out of the two hole for some reason although I haven't looked that information up, I suspect I am right. I really think he and Jones should be reversed now in the lineup. I think if that happened Markakis will immediately improve in the C and L or clutch hitting department.

Brian Roberts is the one who I think we will regret his contract, not Markakis as Roberts is showing signs of being a primma donna. Not running out balls, lolligagging on making throws, and trying to hit homers while refusing to lay down a bunt or work on same to get hits. I was only sort of joking around earlier about Markakis and his new wife, but I am really much more seriously concerned about Roberts. He just doesn't seem right since he got married. He is the one who needs either a swift kick in the rump or a fire lit under his proverbial little tail by DT.

I think you vastly overrate lineup positioning, but that's fair if that's your position.

I'll avoid the wife stuff....seems a bit in the way of "old-fashioned, social-sexism" if you ask me...but whatever, let others with more energy take that on.

[Old#5fan]

I think you vastly overrate lineup positioning, but that's fair if that's your position.

I'll avoid the wife stuff....seems a bit in the way of "old-fashioned, social-sexism" if you ask me...but whatever, let others with more energy take that on.

Its not just the wife but also the LT contract. You quoted me before I edited that into my original post.

[Frobby]

Actually, I think Markakis is trying hard and actually could be trying too hard in Close and Late situations which could be the reason he is doing so poorly. He seems to me to be a player who hits better in the clutch out of the two hole for some reason although I haven't looked that information up, I suspect I am right. I really think he and Jones should be reversed now in the lineup. I think if that happened Markakis will immediately improve in the C and L or clutch hitting department.

Of course, the later in the game it is, the less important it is whether you are batting no. 2 or no. 3 in the lineup. The first AB of the game is the only time that you are sure of when that inning you will be batting. If you are talking about batting in the 7th - 9th innings, you have no idea whether the no. 3 hitter will be leading off, batting 2nd, 3rd, etc. in a particular inning. So, I really don't think lineup position makes much difference, except maybe if youo have a really good hitter behind you, that means you will get better pitches to hit because the opposing pitcher will be reluctant to put you on base.

[ShaneDawg85]

So you think that getting a big hit in an AS game is inconsequential an irrelevant to all players or just Michael Young for some reason? If you think the best players in the game aren't competitive in that game than I must refer you to try looking up the AS game (on video) where Pete Rose trampled over Ray Fosse. I watched that game as it occurred. Then tell me that the players view this game as inconsequential and irrelevant.:rolleyestf: I have no idea why you would come up with such a distorted viewpoint?

First, the point was Michael Young, because I'm sure he cares so much about helping another team that he's not playing for have home field advantage in the World Series. Second, I don't care that you watched some game that happened almost 40 years ago, nor does anybody else, and oh by the way Rose was and still is lambasted by many for the play, because many people then and now find the game inconsequential. Third, MLB instituted the WS thing because of the fact that nobody took the game seriously, people in and outside of the game found the game inconsequential and irrelevant, and because of the public relations nightmare that happened the year before in the 2002 game with the tie.

Maybe the All Star Game used to mean something. Big deal. It doesn't now, as much as baseball might try it seem like it does. It is what it is, an exhibition of players as voted by the fans and chosen by the coaches, not some end all be all that says this guy is clutch and this guy isn't. Regular season, post season, sure, absolutely. All Star Game? Give me a break.

[Old#5fan]

First, the point was Michael Young, because I'm sure he cares so much about helping another team that he's not playing for have home field advantage in the World Series. Second, I don't care that you watched some game that happened almost 40 years ago, nor does anybody else, and oh by the way Rose was and still is lambasted by many for the play, because many people then and now find the game inconsequential. Third, MLB instituted the WS thing because of the fact that nobody took the game seriously, people in and outside of the game found the game inconsequential and irrelevant, and because of the public relations nightmare that happened the year before in the 2002 game with the tie.

Maybe the All Star Game used to mean something. Big deal. It doesn't now, as much as baseball might try it seem like it does. It is what it is, an exhibition of players as voted by the fans and chosen by the coaches, not some end all be all that says this guy is clutch and this guy isn't. Regular season, post season, sure, absolutely. All Star Game? Give me a break.

The Allstar game is all about pride. If you don't think each and every player named to the team isn't proud of being there you are sadly mistaken. It is also the opportunity (only one for many who never make it to a playoff or WS game) to shine before a National TV audience of great magnitude as all teams fans are watching as well as many former greats and HOFERs. It is also an opportunity to see how well you fare against the best of the best. So to minimize it is simply not true. They also now manage the thing more than ever to win it. Just ask George Sherrill as they wore him out!

[Old#5fan]

Of course, the later in the game it is, the less important it is whether you are batting no. 2 or no. 3 in the lineup. The first AB of the game is the only time that you are sure of when that inning you will be batting. If you are talking about batting in the 7th - 9th innings, you have no idea whether the no. 3 hitter will be leading off, batting 2nd, 3rd, etc. in a particular inning. So, I really don't think lineup position makes much difference, except maybe if youo have a really good hitter behind you, that means you will get better pitches to hit because the opposing pitcher will be reluctant to put you on base.

That may be so but invariably it seems that the top three hitters or at least three of the four will come up in a tight game in either the 9th or 8th inning and often in order.

[ledzepp8]

Yeah, but the point they are ignoring which irritates the living daylights out of me is Markakis hasn't had nearly the PA's that Young and Damon have. Yet everyone wants to act like he has.

At the rate he is going right now his close and late stats are dropping like a cannonball. So that is what is very worrisome. Not his career numbers which to me seem very inflated. If he ends up playing til age 36 with career close and late stats like Young or Damon I will be elated with Nick Markakis.

Of course he has one big disadvantage and that is unlike Young or Damon, he is unable to feast on wretched Orioles pitching!

For his career, Nick has 320 PA in "close and late" situations. You saw how good his numbers are in those situations. Do you really think his first 20 ABs this season in those situations are indicative of what he'll do for the rest of his career?

Good grief sir, how are you able to breathe?

[ejf1025]

The Allstar game is all about pride. If you don't think each and every player named to the team isn't proud of being there you are sadly mistaken. It is also the opportunity (only one for many who never make it to a playoff or WS game) to shine before a National TV audience of great magnitude as all teams fans are watching as well as many former greats and HOFERs. It is also an opportunity to see how well you fare against the best of the best. So to minimize it is simply not true. They also now manage the thing more than ever to win it. Just ask George Sherrill as they wore him out!

Roger Clemens got worn out one year too...

All the other clutch stuff aside...this is just such a ridiculous position to take. Honestly, ASG performance as a barometer? They get what--2-3 ABs?? Pitch maybe one inning or two innings...

It's simply stupefying--I've never once heard anybody from statheads to old-fashioned baseballers ever use ASG competition as a way to judge someone.