Where is Our Clutch Hitting Late in Games?

[Mackus]

Look at his stats in the clutch situations. Look at what he does when the team is behind. Nick is just falling into the losing culture.

It's not that he's not pulling his weight, rather the losing is pulling him down.

Just to go on record:

This isn't a case of people ganging up on you because you have a "contrarian opinion". Its several people independently pointing out that your "logic" is inherently awful and showing you the specific fallacies in your argument.

[Burg]

Look at his stats in the clutch situations. Look at what he does when the team is behind. Nick is just falling into the losing culture IMO.

It's not that he's not pulling his weight, rather the losing is pulling him down.

Jones however seems to not let the losing affect him yet and the stats are showing that.

If, as you incorrectly and ludicrously hypothesize, Roberts and Markakis were mailing it in because they had nothing to play for in 2009 then they would be bad all of the time and not just late in the game

The only thing worse than your "argument" is your defense of same.

[Frobby]

Look at his stats in the clutch situations. Look at what he does when the team is behind. Nick is just falling into the losing culture IMO.

It's not that he's not pulling his weight, rather the losing is pulling him down.

Jones however seems to not let the losing affect him yet and the stats are showing that.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? We are talking about 20 AB here. From that you have concluded that Markakis is "falling into the losing culture?"

Get a grip.

[Burg]

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? We are talking about 20 AB here. From that you have concluded that Markakis is "falling into the losing culture?"

Get a grip.

That ship has sailed unfortunately. Something inside of Trea's mind died when Tex signed with the MFYs.

[RShack]

IS anyone else literally screaming at thier monitor? Now we have two people questioning Nicks effort THIS SEASON. WTF are you watching????????

How much attention he gets, just like FakeCodgerDude.

Same basic thing...

[LAOSfan]

This thread feels like that City Slickers scene:

"He doesn't get it. He'll never get it."

[JTrea81]

Just to go on record:

This isn't a case of people ganging up on you because you have a "contrarian opinion". Its several people independently pointing out that your "logic" is inherently awful and showing you the specific fallacies in your argument.

I'm not feeling ganged up upon. I just see merit in the OPs viewpoint. And I think the majority of posts against that viewpoint are letting their personal feelings about a player get in the way of the actual reality of the situation.

I like Markakis and I like Roberts. I am not slandering them in any way. I'm just saying the losing has gotten to them just like the rest of the team minus Jones and their performance shows that.

It's just like any job. Say you knew you were going to be terminated in June and you find out in January after giving years of service to a company. Just how much effort are you going to give from January to June in your job? Why exactly should you go above and beyond.

MacPhail basically "terminated" the chances of winning for the the whole team. They know they aren't playing in October. Thus you are seeing the result IMO.

[Maverick2143]

Look at his stats in the clutch situations. Look at what he does when the team is behind. Nick is just falling into the losing culture IMO.

It's not that he's not pulling his weight, rather the losing is pulling him down.

Jones however seems to not let the losing affect him yet and the stats are showing that.

So once again I ask if a losing culture is pulling him down than why the hell is hitting all game long? Does the losing culture only manifest it's self in late and close situations? What about in games where the O's are down big early? When does the losing culture come into play?

[Flosman]

Look at his stats in the clutch situations. Look at what he does when the team is behind. Nick is just falling into the losing culture IMO.

It's not that he's not pulling his weight, rather the losing is pulling him down.

Jones however seems to not let the losing affect him yet and the stats are showing that.

So just so I get it right. The crappy pitching and bottom third of the lineup is making Nick not hit well "late and close" this season. I guess last season he hit well all game in spite of the "losing culture" because he was trying to get a long term deal. What do you expect from modern day players?

BTW "Heres your Sign".

[Frobby]

By the way, the definition of "late & close":

Late & Close are PA in the 7th or later with the batting team tied, ahead by one, or the tying run at least on deck.

So if you come up in the 7th inning, down by 2 runs and bases empty, that's part of "late & close." It's not like Nick has come up 20 times in the 9th inning with runners on base, or anything remotely like that.

[McLovin]

This isn't a case of people ganging up on you because you have a "contrarian opinion". Its several people independently pointing out that your "logic" is inherently awful and showing you the specific fallacies in your argument.

And I have no idea why you guys bother getting sucked into the vortex. In fact, you have been tag teamed by the 2 official vortex masters. Well done OldFan/Jtrea. Well done.

[Mackus]

I'm not feeling ganged up upon. I just see merit in the OPs viewpoint. And I think the majority of posts against that viewpoint are letting their personal feelings about a player get in the way of the actual reality of the situation.

I like Markakis and I like Roberts. I am not slandering them in any way. I'm just saying the losing has gotten to them just like the rest of the team minus Jones and their performance shows that.

It's just like any job. Say you knew you were going to be terminated in June and you find out in January after giving years of service to a company. Just how much effort are you going to give from January to June in your job? Why exactly should you go above and beyond.

MacPhail basically "terminated" the chances of winning for the the whole team. They know they aren't playing in October. Thus you are seeing the result IMO.

No, all that is going on here is you not understanding how meaningless 20 plate appearances can be. That isn't a sample size worth considering meaningful of anything. Did Brian Roberts' recent 0-18 stretch mean he'll never get a hit again? Because to you apparently it must have.

Markakis had a .950 OPS Close & Late last year. Was he trying to win games last year but not this year? He was fighting back against the losing culture last year just like Adam Jones is this year, but all of a sudden he lost the will to swim against the current?

Do you know how insane everything you've said in this thread sounds? I guess by definition, you must not.

[Fan4Life]

I'm still amazed at how much attention a poster can get by expressing the most nonsenseical comments that have to be geered at attention grabbing as there's little other value to find in them. But it works every time. I guess a day off give us a lot of time on our hands. I was the one who brought up to Frobby that Nick, BRob and Huff weren't getting the job done when he posted a great line by the 3 ytd last week. Nothing has changed.

[napbow]

I would think no matter what, Roberts and Markakis would try harder in "late and close" situations. Anyone who has played a pickup basketball game knows this. Most people go out to get some exercise and have a little fun. But when the game reaches 10-10 and it’s game point everyone gets more intense and everyone tries harder. Why? Simply put, competitiveness takes over and nobody likes to lose. Especially professional athletes.

If they were mailing it in, I would suspect it would be the numbers in the first 3 innings that would be down.

Call me crazy but I have a feeling that all professional baseball players try hard when they are up to bat in the ninth inning and the score is tied.

[Flosman]

I would think no matter what, Roberts and Markakis would try harder in "late and close" situations. Anyone who has played a pickup basketball game knows this. Most people go out to get some exercise and have a little fun. But when the game reaches 10-10 and it’s game point everyone gets more intense and everyone tries harder. Why? Simply put, competitiveness takes over and nobody likes to lose. Especially professional athletes.

If they were mailing it in, I would suspect it would be the numbers in the first 3 innings that would be down.

Call me crazy but I have a feeling that all professional baseball players try hard when they are up to bat in the ninth inning and the score is tied.

Obviously you don't understand the "Culture of Losing".