Where is Our Clutch Hitting Late in Games?

[blueberryale77]

Now to try to turn this discussion in a different direction (although it is one that's been battled about on here before), is there any relevance to the potential psychological effect of our hitters not trusting our bullpen to hold a lead and therefore being discouraged when they go up to bat in a close/late situation? I think that may play some small role in our late game offensive struggles.

[Burg]

What do they have to play for? How can you got to battle with a rag tag rotation and get beat up night after night and still have the desire to win?

Professionalism, their next contract, to ensure a spot on the roster going forward, loyalty, because they (like ALL athletes at the highest level) have a desire to win, etc.

Ludicrous, Trea. Simply ludicrous.

[JTrea81]

Professionalism, their next contract, to ensure a spot on the roster going forward, loyalty, because they (like ALL athletes at the highest level) have a desire to win, etc.

Ludicrous, Trea. Simply ludicrous.

Professionalism is pretty much lost this day and age, so is team loyalty. These guys are playing for their teammates or for themselves and if the team as a whole is slumping, it's not like they can be held soley accountable. They too fall into the culture of losing.

Huff you would have a point. But Markakis and Roberts are locked up. They could go 0-300 and still make the same $.

Even if they are cut from the roster, they still make millions of dollars and a competitive team would surely pick them up.

It's funny that Jones has the best stats close and late, because from what I can see he has the most passion and fire on this team.

I think you'd find if the Orioles had something to play for, you'd see a lot better clutch stats. Perhaps the arrival of Wieters and Reimold and some of the younger pitchers will help boost performance and morale and invigorate the team.

[Mackus]

I think it just goes to show that since MacPhail announced this is a lost season, when the Orioles get behind like they usually are in the late innings, they have no reason to come from behind to win the game. What is the purpose of winning games this season? They still get paid regardless. Roberts and Markakis for example, have their money and LT security. They don't need to be clutch anymore.

You can tell that Jones still has the passion and fire because he plays all 9 innings, and his stats show that.

I think everybody else is just playing through the string to get to next year.

This is why you never say that a season is a lost season if you want your players to play hard. That was a huge mistake by MacPhail to write off 2009 so early.

The Orioles are the only team in baseball to basically announce they were playing for 2010-2011...

I don't think you have any idea what the hell you are talking about.

This is in the top 10 or so of most ridiculous posts that you've made. And that's a freaking tough list to crack. Nicely done.

[Flosman]

Professionalism is pretty much lost this day and age, so is team loyalty. These guys are playing for their teammates or for themselves and if the team as a whole is slumping, it's not like they can be held soley accountable. They too fall into the culture of losing.

Huff you would have a point. But Markakis and Roberts are locked up. They could go 0-300 and still make the same $.

Even if they are cut from the roster, they still make millions of dollars and a competitive team would surely pick them up.

It's funny that Jones has the best stats close and late, because from what I can see he has the most passion and fire on this team.

IS anyone else literally screaming at thier monitor? Now we have two people questioning Nicks effort THIS SEASON. WTF are you watching???????? Nick is simply put being completely slandered in this case. He has a OPS of 1.000+, he is in the top 20 in almost every offensive catagory. Are the dolts really thinking about what they are saying. Is Nick really better than this and this is just him mailing it in. Are we saying that he can't really try for the whole game he just plays a couple of innings and starts thinking, "man my wife is Cute, i have alot of money and I am not making anymore by staying here the whole game, I wish I could go home now? AM says next year is when it matters".

Come on folks this is crazy today. People really can't be thinking this crap.

[Mackus]

IS anyone else literally screaming at thier monitor? Now we have two people questioning Nicks effort THIS SEASON. WTF are you watching???????? Nick is simply put being completely slandered in this case. He has a OPS of 1.000+, he is in the top 20 in almost every offensive catagory. Are the dolts really thinking about what they are saying. Is Nick really better than this and this is just him mailing it in. Are we saying that he can't really try for the whole game he just plays a couple of innings and starts thinking, "man my wife is Cute, i have alot of money and I am not making anymore by staying here the whole game, I wish I could go home now? AM says next year is when it matters".

Come on folks this is crazy today. People really can't be thinking this crap.

Yeah, he's off the deep end. He's no different than OldFan at this point, IMO.

He bases his opinions on the smallest of things that no other right-thinking human could take as proof of his arguments and then refuses to see any logic or wisdom when he's proven wrong again and again and again.

[Burg]

Yeah, he's off the deep end. He's no different than OldFan at this point, IMO.

Perhaps he could be "NewFan".

[Maverick2143]

I think it just goes to show that since MacPhail announced this is a lost season, when the Orioles get behind like they usually are in the late innings, they have no reason to come from behind to win the game. What is the purpose of winning games this season? They still get paid regardless. Roberts and Markakis for example, have their money and LT security. They don't need to be clutch anymore.

You can tell that Jones still has the passion and fire because he plays all 9 innings, and his stats show that.

I think everybody else is just playing through the string to get to next year.

This is why you never say that a season is a lost season if you want your players to play hard. That was a huge mistake by MacPhail to write off 2009 so early.

The Orioles are the only team in baseball to basically announce they were playing for 2010-2011...

You have officially .

[JTrea81]

IS anyone else literally screaming at thier monitor? Now we have two people questioning Nicks effort THIS SEASON. WTF are you watching???????? Nick is simply put being completely slandered in this case. He has a OPS of 1.000+, he is in the top 20 in almost every offensive catagory. Are the dolts really thinking about what they are saying. Is Nick really better than this and this is just him mailing it in. Are we saying that he can't really try for the whole game he just plays a couple of innings and starts thinking, "man my wife is Cute, i have alot of money and I am not making anymore by staying here the whole game, I wish I could go home now? AM says next year is when it matters".

Come on folks this is crazy today. People really can't be thinking this crap.

Nick and Brian's stats close and late speak for themselves. They've got the numbers overall, but do they deliver when the team needs them to rally?

The numbers say no.

It's not slandering, it's pointing out what the stats say. Some people just don't want to hear what that is apparently.

It's just questioning their motivation. Frankly I don't blame them if they are mailing it in. They really don't have anything to play for and that lies with Andy MacPhail and the makeup of this roster. He chose to throw away this season and the majority of O's fans are on board with that.

So people shouldn't be shocked if the players aren't giving 100% out there after they've been beaten up night after night with little hope or reinforcements. It's just like in August when MacPhail refused to promote the younger players. The team went right into the tank because they gave up.

I don't blame these guys, the situation is what it is.

[Maverick2143]

Nick and Brian's stats close and late speak for themselves. They've got the numbers overall, but do they deliver when the team needs them to rally?

The numbers say no.

So your theory is that they hit the hell out of the ball all game long but, at the end of the game they don't because they don't care about winning??? Am I getting this right?

[Frobby]

Let me just add my name to the list of posters who think JTrea81 is being ridiculous. "I'm getting paid a lot of money, so I guess I'll try in my first couple of at bats each day, but I'm not going to try in the late innings of close games." Just listen to how ridiculous that sounds.

Trying to come up with a psychological explanation is a complete waste of time. It is a small sample size, period.

[Flosman]

Nick and Brian's stats close and late speak for themselves. They've got the numbers overall, but do they deliver when the team needs them to rally?

The numbers say no.

It's not slandering, it's pointing out what the stats say. Some people just don't want to hear what that is apparently.

So you actually are reaffirming your idiotic view that Nick is not pulling his weight. I feel like I am in a twilight zone episode and several posters around here have had thier brains eaten by zombies.

[Maverick2143]

Let me just add my name to the list of posters who think JTrea81 is being ridiculous. "I'm getting paid a lot of money, so I guess I'll try in my first couple of at bats each day, but I'm not going to try in the late innings of close games." Just listen to how ridiculous that sounds.

Trying to come up with a psychological explanation is a complete waste of time. It is a small sample size, period.

I despise Colin Cowherd but, one thing I do agree with him on is the "out loud" test. When your in an argument or are trying to make a decision say you opinion or idea out loud. Often times what sounds feasible in your head sounds like complete hogwash when spoken aloud.

[Mackus]

Nick and Brian's stats close and late speak for themselves. They've got the numbers overall, but do they deliver when the team needs them to rally?

The numbers say no.

It's not slandering, it's pointing out what the stats say. Some people just don't want to hear what that is apparently.

We're talking about 20 at bats.

Only an idiot would think that means anything beyond that they have had rough numbers over those 20 at bats. It doesn't mean that they aren't good players, or that they struggle "in the clutch" and it certainly doesn't mean that they aren't trying hard.

The "numbers" don't say anything other than those two guys have struggled in one randomly selected split over a nearly meaningless number of at bats. You are grossly misusing statistics here.

Nick had a .948 OPS in 110 Close & Late PAs last year. But you think his 20 PAs this year mean that he's not trying? Do you have any idea of how ridiculous that is?

You have absolutely no concept of correlation and causation, don't understand what statistics mean or how to use them, and have utterly no idea of the differences between evidence and proof.

[JTrea81]

So you actually are reaffirming your idiotic view that Nick is not pulling his weight. I feel like I am in a twilight zone episode and several posters around here have had thier brains eaten by zombies.

Look at his stats in the clutch situations. Look at what he does when the team is behind. Nick is just falling into the losing culture IMO.

It's not that he's not pulling his weight, rather the losing is pulling him down.

Jones however seems to not let the losing affect him yet and the stats are showing that.