Dinner with Flanny

[ScottieBaseball]

I have to ask...how did this "Dinner with the Flanagans" come to be? I don't recall hearing anything about it. Then again, my wife complains all the time about my listening and a bunch of other stuff...I don't know...I really don't pay attention.

Anyhow, even though some of our counterparts at that OTHER message board have labeled the event otherwise, I think it was an awesome public relations gesture from a team that needs it. I loved him as an Oriole, tolerated him in the booth, and I'm undecided about Mike Flanagan: Front Office Guru. All of that considered, there's no question where his heart and soul lie. Anyone who suggests he'd consciously make a decision detrimental to this team should take a second look at the guy who, along with his wife and a family friend, sat down and broke bread with 8 fans last night.

Great points all the way around about posting more respectfully, something I've championed here since I first signed up. I used to get angry, but now I can't help but find humor in the message board personalities that hide behind their handle and the anonymity afforded one sitting at a PC. Don't get me wrong...I'm really not the 'touchy-feely' sensitive-type of guy, but I don't post anything here or on any other message board that I wouldn't say to someone's face. I live by that.

Thanks again, everyone, for filling us in!

[Frobby]

I'm not anti Flanagan and I don't have a peronsal vendetta against Angelos. But taking a bunch of people out to dinner and putting their spin on things is definitely an attempt to court public opinion.

So? It is my impression that Flanagan does this once a year (right, helloharv?). I'm glad he does. Do you have to take what is said with a grain of salt? Sure.

[bigbird]

Now the most important question....where did you eat and what did you have?

[bobmc]

Now the most important question....where did you eat and what did you have?

Finally, someone with the same idea I had - and the location (warehouse) and alcoholic bevs? Did you and Mackus teetotal? Did the Witchster get "rambunctious" or act a bit out of character (meaning tactful and discrete) due to the circumstances? :002_sbiggrin: Dress?

[bobmc]

Did ya'll AT LEAST find out whether Anna and Kris christened the Yard yet?

Either together or with others....and has it already been ch - I hate to use that term - "done" by other flamboyant sorts?

[Witchy_Chick]

Thanks very much to Witchy, Harv, and others for sharing this information. I'm really glad that you guys were able to meet the Flannagans, etc. I do not want to ruffle feathers and in no way mean this as a negative towards those who attended, but overall it sounds like a lot of what fans were told at this dinner was complete b.s. For example, every single team has to deal with the same exact insurance issues.

Not necessarily. A larger market team than we are could conceivably choose to not insure the player's contract and could hypothetically afford to pay out said contract in the event of a career-ending injury.

Whatever the hidden cost is to the O's, then that's the same hidden cost to every other team. Plus the O's actually recoup substantial portions of that investment when players are injured (e.g., Belle). That's part of doing business. I think that's a terrible and very misleading "excuse".

And what happens if the guy doesn't get injured? Do we end up getting...say....$16 million (salary + insurance cost) value out of him? Probably not.

Same goes for the "value to debt" issue. That rule does not prevent Angelos from sinking his own money into the payroll, that rule would prevent Angelos from LOANING certain amounts of money to the team. Total smoke and mirrors. That even suggests that money that Angelos has provided to the team in the past may have been loans and that he is being or has been repayed.

Like I said -- I am not as up on the economics of baseball as some. I will go through this information Mrs. Flanagan provided, but I can't promise I will understand it. I may be intelligent (thanks, RZNJ ) but financial/accounting stuff makes me break out in hives.

As for the long nights, weekends, holidays, etc., I don't feel sorry for these people at all. They have great jobs, very unique jobs, and they don't work any harder than a lot of O's fans.

Are you serious? Because they work in an office -- they don't work hard? (And, BTW, I am not fighting that fight -- I do it too often with my blue-collar worker father.) Do you honestly work 17-hour days, weekends, and holidays? I don't -- and I thank my lucky stars for that. As much as I love the O's and one day, maybe, might want to work for them -- uh uh. Not with those hours. I'd much rather have a life outside of my job.

EDIT TO ADD: I just noticed what time it is and it is time for me to get the hell outta Dodge (or work, if you prefer). Furthermore, I have an O's game tonight, therefore I will not be online. Y'all fight amongst yerselves and Witchy will be back to referee in the morning. Peace out.

Witchy

[ScottieBaseball]

As for the long nights, weekends, holidays, etc., I don't feel sorry for these people at all. They have great jobs, very unique jobs, and they don't work any harder than a lot of O's fans..

Oh, come on, bmorechop...you're better than that. That's the front office executive application of the argument, "They're rich! They should shut up and play baseball/football/basketball/hockey/etc." They're still people, my man. People I'm sure haven't lost touch with reality so much that they don't have things in perspective. I don't care how much money I'm getting paid, my hat goes off to a guy that can be away from his family that much.

[nadecir]

This issue was the lead topic of conversation. Mrs. Flanagan talked a lot of Accounting talk (which is sooooo beyond me) -- she specifically mentioned the debt-income ratio rule (I think that's what it's called) that Selig (IIRC) implemented around the timeframe that Tampa Bay was in jeopardy of not making payroll. She mentioned that Angelos can't provide his own money. I am completely in the dark as to why he can't provide his own money. Like I said, I have to go through all these materials she provided us.Witchy

Witchy, I think many of us fans would be satisfied if Angelos elected to make less profit on the team every year, and plow more money into the Orioles payroll. We are not asking him to put any of his own money into the team.

Unless Forbes is wrong (and it is the only unbiased source we have), the Orioles having been making a sizable profit the last few years. And if you include the one-time special payments Angelos has received from MLB, there's even more money to spend on players' salaries.

If the debt-income ratio is in issue for the Orioles, how about using some of the team's profits to pay down the team's debt?

I'd love to know if any information that Mrs. Flanigan provided contradicts the Forbes' analysis that indicates the Orioles made a sizable amount of money the past few years.

[hoosiers]

Great report, Witchy. It sounds like a great experience and kudos for sharing with and representing the Hangout.

I am an accountant as well - and I'll flash the CPA certification if that will help in your decision. :002_ssmile: Chicks dig the numbers guy!

FWIW, I have worked the hours you are speaking of - during busy season when I was with one of the Big Six (in those days), when working deals for two subsequent employers and for over an entire year with my current employer. You do what you have to do - and that has involved deferring/losing vacations, etc.

[Dynamite]

What about the ~$15 million or so the Orioles stand to profit from the sale of the Nationals? Where's that money going to go - directly into Angelos' pockets, or towards future payroll?

[Wingman]

Sounds like everyone had a good time and I'm not saying the Flanagan's are not nice people but I can't say I'm really impressed by what was said...

Of course they want to see the O's win... Every GM of every team in history has wanted this. My problem is their decisions, not their desire or effort. To their credit they seem to have finally turned the corner on the farm system but it really is years away from really producing the volume of players we will need to compete with the Yanks and Red Sox.

My problem is they seem to think that players like Conine, CPat, keeping Matos, Millar and Benson and leaving some huge holes in the bullpen somehow have us in contention this year. Why don't we admit that we can't bring in enough FA's to compete this year and build to the future by trading a few of our veteran players for prospects and give more of our younger players chances to play, by not bringing in Benson, Conine, Millar etc and save our money for maybe bringing in that piece to put us over the top.

All this "saving face" is hurting us in the long run...

Despite saying all this, I'm not completely anti Flanagan... How he approaches this season's trading deadline is THE KEY to the future. He needs to make some serious trades to position our team for the future... If he stands pat, it will really lower my opinion of him and diminish any hope I have for the future of this organization.

[Ohfan67]

Not necessarily. A larger market team than we are could conceivably choose to not insure the player's contract and could hypothetically afford to pay out said contract in the event of a career-ending injury.

And what happens if the guy doesn't get injured? Do we end up getting...say....$16 million (salary + insurance cost) value out of him? Probably not.

Like I said -- I am not as up on the economics of baseball as some. I will go through this information Mrs. Flanagan provided, but I can't promise I will understand it. I may be intelligent (thanks, RZNJ ) but financial/accounting stuff makes me break out in hives.

Are you serious? Because they work in an office -- they don't work hard? (And, BTW, I am not fighting that fight -- I do it too often with my blue-collar worker father.) Do you honestly work 17-hour days, weekends, and holidays? I don't -- and I thank my lucky stars for that. As much as I love the O's and one day, maybe, might want to work for them -- uh uh. Not with those hours. I'd much rather have a life outside of my job.

EDIT TO ADD: I just noticed what time it is and it is time for me to get the hell outta Dodge (or work, if you prefer). Furthermore, I have an O's game tonight, therefore I will not be online. Y'all fight amongst yerselves and Witchy will be back to referee in the morning. Peace out.

Witchy

Witchy -- I totally stand by my comments and am surprised that you are rushing to invent scenarios that defend the performance of the O's organization. First, the O's, like all baseball teams, are a multimillion dollar business. Insuring the business' assets is a given/the norm, not the exception. That's part of the cost of doing business and is the same for all teams. It is, IMO, a totally lame "excuse." As for working hard, I did NOT question at all that they work hard. I'm sure they do. They have demanding jobs. But jobs that many, many people want and that they worked for/campaigned for, etc., for a very long time. They have very unique jobs that are financially rewarding, etc. And yes, I have worked many, many 17 hour days, holidays, etc. MANY people have jobs that require sacrifices...and many of those people enjoy those jobs. That's a choice that many people make. I'm not saying they don't work hard, I'm saying I feel absolutely no pity for them.

[bigbird]

where Did You Eat!

[Ohfan67]

Oh, come on, bmorechop...you're better than that. That's the front office executive application of the argument, "They're rich! They should shut up and play baseball/football/basketball/hockey/etc." They're still people, my man. People I'm sure haven't lost touch with reality so much that they don't have things in perspective. I don't care how much money I'm getting paid, my hat goes off to a guy that can be away from his family that much.

As I just replied to Witchy, I don't feel sorry for these guys at all. They have incredibly exciting, interesting jobs. If they don't want to work that hard, then they should quit. Have you guys talked to MD's? Nurses? There are tons of people that have very demanding jobs for which there are no holidays...and many of those people make very little money, are not fawned over by the public, media, etc. Again, I'm not saying this to be mean or anything, I'm just saying that's part of the job and no different than many others in our society. To whine about it to fans, many of whom work crappy hours for relatively low pay, is, in my opinion, ridiculous. By the way, I'm not a big Flannagan hater or anything. I've defended some of his moves in the past, willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about next year, etc., but from what's been reported the information that was communicated seems to be smoke.

[erb8472]

where Did You Eat!

What did you Eat!