The decline in our OF defense is on display

[JTrea81]

Roberts has been a part of losing culture and although he's a good player, I wonder if he's part of the problem. Although Nick should have totally called him off on that ball, his non-chalant manner on that play spoke volumes to me in a 4-4 ball game.

Funny I got shellacked for making that same comment more or less...

Maybe I'm not so "insane" or "ridiculous" after all...

I really think Roberts' attitude has rubbed off on Nick.

[UpstateNYfan]

If they don't care, why the heck should I???

YOU HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!! Treat it for what it is....bad entertainment. They really don't care. They are rich men, playing a kids game, on a team that is never expected to win because they always have to compete against the yanks and Sox. I believe pitchers always work hard because they are the most easily exposed if they suck. But there is a core on this team that are just collecting checks.

[Singleton]

Roberts has been a part of losing culture and although he's a good player, I wonder if he's part of the problem. Although Nick should have totally called him off on that ball, his non-chalant manner on that play spoke volumes to me in a 4-4 ball game.

It's interesting to me that Brob is taking most of the flack here but wasn't Makakis even more non-chalant. Brob glides back on that play all the time and catches it. I've noticed for some time that Markakis lets Roberts make these more difficult plays when it is clearly his ball. For some reason, tonight, Brob pulled up. Perhaps he heard Markakis coming. Either way, while Brob could have gotten back on the ball more quickly and made the play it should not have mattered. Markakis should have been there long before and made the play.

[tvz1997]

There is a huge difference between what you write and Tony's post. You written lots of stuff as your conspiracy theories are constantly changing to fit whatever "evidence" you find that day, but your three main theories re: this issue are:

Nick and Brian no longer care because they now have long term contracts. This simply isn't true as Roberts has occasionally made these mistakes his entire career.

1. Nick and Brian don't care this year because MacPhail announced it was a rebuilding year and we wouldn't win this year. Of course you write this with the intent to simultaneously insult both these guys but your main target in that theory is MacPhail.
2. Nick and Brian quit once they get behind in games. I'd love to know how that fits tonight as we were ahead and made the mistake to go behind.

Face it. Your theories are hogwash because they assume some kind of conspiracy or conscious acts.

Tony is simply saying that neither guy is a leader-type and that they appeared to have lost focus in what should be a situation where they should have been focused. I agree with both sentiments.

The play tonight was simply ridiculous. It was inexcusable. This was by far the worst show of listlessness/lack of focus that I've seen all year from either guy. However, I don't think either guy did it on purpose. I simply think they both cadillacked on a play and NOBODY should be cadillacking in a 4-4 game.

I really do think that DT needs to have a serious talk with both of them together in a room. In that talk, he needs to tell them that this team depends on them to lead by their actions ALL the time. I'd tell them that it appears that they are both worn out and that I was going to give them a day to get some rest and refocus because neither of them was going to start on Sunday. I'd tell them I was disappointed in their effort and appeal for them to help change the culture.

I don't think you and JTrea's opinions of all of this are all that far apart and hope your opinions of each other don't take this thread off the tracks again. Honestly (and this may get me negative rep or whatever), but you seem like you're at the point where you can't give JTrea (or for others, maybe it is Oldfan) the benefit of the doubt or the most generous possible read because he has ticked you off or done (said) something you think is ridiculous too many times. Ironically, that sounds to me to be a lot like some of the reactions to BRob's play right now. I don't see where anybody said Roberts and Kakes tanked that play on purpose, though.

Whatever, I'm ducking back out of this thread before the mortars start falling.

[Frobby]

Yeh, I agree. Roberts definitely played that ball poorly, but it was CLEARLY Nick's ball. It wasn't even a hard play for him. He could have caught that ball standing still. The simple act of yelling I've got it at any point in time keeps that play from happening. What Nick did was much worse IMO. Roberts was aware of how easy that play was for Nick and how far out he was. That doesn't excuse him, but it was clearly Nick's ball.

I agree with this, and with your other posts. I don't feel the need to worry about who deserves "more" blame, there's plenty to go around for both of them, as either could have caught that ball without much difficulty, but in the end, that's Nick's ball. And DT should speak to them and let them know they need to be setting an example out there.

[RHall31]

I agree with this, and with your other posts. I don't feel the need to worry about who deserves "more" blame, there's plenty to go around for both of them, as either could have caught that ball without much difficulty, but in the end, that's Nick's ball. And DT should speak to them and let them know they need to be setting an example out there.[/QUOTE]

I don't know, maybe he should stop talking to them altogether!

Quoted form the Sun;

"Just hours after Trembley lamented the number of winnable games his team has given away, and a day after he had an extensive talk with veteran second baseman Brian Roberts, whose focus and hustle has recently come under scrutiny, the Orioles bumbled together a couple of their worst innings all season with Roberts right in the thick of it."

[Fan4Life]

DT used to espouse how thankful and proud he was to get the managers job for the Baltimore Orioles. How playing the game the right way was how Baltimore forged a name for itself as one of the class organizations in baseball. I can't think DT is proud lately. Inbetween these line I am commenting on the play of BRob and Nick and other than Andino, Reimold, and perhaps another, a general lack of urgency while playing the game. BRob is one of my favorite players and I was pulling hard for him to get his extension. But after the first month of the season or so, I have been largely disappointed in his play physically and mentally. He certainly isn't single-handedly causing us to lose games, but it is a contributing factor.

[Three Run Homer]

I agree with this, and with your other posts. I don't feel the need to worry about who deserves "more" blame, there's plenty to go around for both of them, as either could have caught that ball without much difficulty, but in the end, that's Nick's ball. And DT should speak to them and let them know they need to be setting an example out there.

I agree that Nick deserves most of the blame for that play. It's always easier to come in on a ball than to backpedal. The outfielder needs to get on his horse, run as hard as he can, and call the infielder off. The replay clearly showed Nick jogging towards the ball.

Trembley had a golden opportunity to tell the world and the team that he doesn't appreciate this kind of horsebleep, by pulling Markakis for a pinch hitter the following inning. I don't understand why that move wasn't made.

[tvz1997]

I agree with this, and with your other posts. I don't feel the need to worry about who deserves "more" blame, there's plenty to go around for both of them, as either could have caught that ball without much difficulty, but in the end, that's Nick's ball. And DT should speak to them and let them know they need to be setting an example out there.[/QUOTE]

I don't know, maybe he should stop talking to them altogether!

Quoted form the Sun;

"Just hours after Trembley lamented the number of winnable games his team has given away, and a day after he had an extensive talk with veteran second baseman Brian Roberts, whose focus and hustle has recently come under scrutiny, the Orioles bumbled together a couple of their worst innings all season with Roberts right in the thick of it."

Wow. That article makes it a lot more clear that Trembley and the Bmore media have been aware of BRob's lackadaisical play for some time now.

Here's the link: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-sp.orioles05jul05,0,1772043.story

[tvz1997]

As usual, I think there are people on this board who don't give enough credit to the mgmt of the team for how much they really know/see and what they're trying to do about it. Of course this Roberts' situation is well known to DT. Of course he is trying to do something about it. The question is will it be effective.

So, you're saying there IS a Roberts issue?

[tvz1997]

Of course there is an issue, though I'd be hesitant to call it an "issue" because that blows it up beyond what it is IMO. Clearly, he hasn't been hustling all the time. Clearly, he hasn't been focused all the time this year. The question is why? Some of us seem to think that Brian is sitting there giggling under his breath going "I tricked these guys into paying me lots of money guaranteed so now I can be the lazy, uncaring guy I've always been but pretended I wasn't". I subscribe to the theory that there isn't some grand motive to his uneven play this year, because I tend not to assume that guys that have worked that hard and have given that much time to charity aren't secretly lazy pieces of crap. Call me crazy.

I was joking around, trying to lighten things up bit. Note the smiley. Sorry.

[Dr. FLK]

As usual, I think there are people on this board who don't give enough credit to the mgmt of the team for how much they really know/see and what they're trying to do about it. Of course this Roberts' situation is well known to DT. Of course he is trying to do something about it. The question is will it be effective.

Pretty much. IMO, it's pretty naive to assume that DT is doing nothing because we don't see him doing something. If we are frustrated by his lazy play, I'd imagine DT is infinitely more frustrated since his job more or less depends on it.

[El Gordo]

Pretty much. IMO, it's pretty naive to assume that DT is doing nothing because we don't see him doing something. If we are frustrated by his lazy play, I'd imagine DT is infinitely more frustrated since his job more or less depends on it.

I think a lot of people here think a manager's job is to act out their frustrations with the teams play by throwing fits in public, calling guys out in the press, screaming at umpires etc. These are the things they feel like doing. They don't necessarily bring good results in terms of the teams play, they just make immature fans feel better ..... for two seconds.

[JTrea81]

Of course there is an issue, though I'd be hesitant to call it an "issue" because that blows it up beyond what it is IMO. Clearly, he hasn't been hustling all the time. Clearly, he hasn't been focused all the time this year. The question is why? Some of us seem to think that Brian is sitting there giggling under his breath going "I tricked these guys into paying me lots of money guaranteed so now I can be the lazy, uncaring guy I've always been but pretended I wasn't". I subscribe to the theory that there isn't some grand motive to his uneven play this year, because I tend not to assume that guys that have worked that hard and have given that much time to charity aren't secretly lazy pieces of crap. Call me crazy.

As I've said before, this sums up Roberts in a nutshell IMO...

Peter Gibbons: The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.

Bob Porter: Don't... don't care?

Peter Gibbons: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation?

[SilentJames]

As I've said before, this sums up Roberts in a nutshell IMO...

Yes, the guy who leads the AL in doubles doesn't care.