Wash. Times steps to the plate and tries to rank our prospects.

[QSII]

Where's Jesse Beal? He should be in the top 25-30.

Maybe higher. Impressive showing this year. On looking at his stats, I'll buy that 25-30 slot after all. K/inning not all that, for instance.

[McLovin]

Angle's an OF, right? How's he stack up vs. Pie at the same age? Pie's like 7 months older, and put up better numbers in the majors this year. See how that works out for Angle's projection?

I disagree.

Felix Pie was a Top 10 MLB prospect. It's not an appropriate comparison at all.

Matt Angle could be a productive bench player and is a plus defender. He might make it, he might not. But yes, he has Big League potential. His minor league numbers are better than Scott Podsednik's across the board.

[QBsILLEST1]

You never know how a player is going to transfer over to the majors until he actually does so. Matt Angle could be our next BRob. Im saying that as in he has decent MiLB numbers, nothing spectacular, but comes up and becomes an above average MLer. Not saying I think thats gonna happen, but with Angle it could happen, just because he apparently has some of the best instincts in the system and really knows how to play. If that is all true, all he really needs to be able to do is have a solid contact rate and use his speed to his advantage, similar to Roberts. Angle's biggest knock is his lack of power, but if he can get on base and get some hits, he could be good. If we could only somehow combine the best aspects of Angle and Turner, wed have something special.....

[TheBandit]

No, you can't.:mwahaha: You CAN find the Matt Angle who will be 24 years old a week from tomorrow. He terrorized A ball to the tune of a .717 OPS. His own mother doesn't project this guy as a big leaguer.

Look at our scrubs this year on our last place team. Angle's an OF, right? How's he stack up vs. Pie at the same age? Pie's like 7 months older, and put up better numbers in the majors this year. See how that works out for Angle's projection?

Age is not a factor. He's in his 2nd full year in professional ball with plus defense, a good walk rate, high on base percentage, and plus speed. A lead-off hitting centerfielder who will score runs for you is definitely big league caliber.

Felix Pie is in his 8th professional year. In his 2nd full professional year he was at the same level hitting for more power but with less discipline and a lower on-base percentage.

If you were to compare, that is how you would have to look at it. Get off the stereotype bus of people who obsess with age. If he's 25 and producing or 22 and producing, he's still producing. If he continues to produce when you promote, you keep promoting him.

[QSII]

I disagree.

Felix Pie was a Top 10 MLB prospect. It's not an appropriate comparison at all.

It's a direct comparison. Angle has to climb over Pie right now to get a job. I know I'm shouting down a well, but people can't assess prospects in a vacuum. The dude has to be better than his competition to climb the ladder. I didn't even bring Montanez up yet, since Pie is the same age. Same age, same system, same position. You can't draw a more direct comparison. Worse yet, the clock is ticking on a 24 year old who is already behind.

And don't forget the team we're angling for is like the third worst in baseball. It's not like our mediocre prospects are going to Boston and break in.

I'm also working from a different perspective than some, which impacts my assessment. I think your whole system is there to support the 2.5 impact players you'd love to produce every year. MLB scrubs are PTBNL. There are thousands of people to fill those roles for peanuts. It's Matusz and Wieters who move the pile. Producing them is my prime objective. So I care about the Fabrizio's in the low minors who have a shot. I don't care about the 24 year old A ball mediocrities so much. I just need enough to wrap around my studs.

[McLovin]

It's a direct comparison. Angle has to climb over Pie right now to get a job. I know I'm shouting down a well, but people can't assess prospects in a vacuum. The dude has to be better than his competition to climb the ladder. I didn't even bring Montanez up yet, since Pie is the same age. Same age, same system, same position. You can't draw a more direct comparison. Worse yet, the clock is ticking on a 24 year old who is already behind.

Now you've lost me. The point I'm trying to make is that we have a deep minor league system, with many potential MLB players. Your counter to that argument is "no, we don't, because Felix Pie is going to hold down a roster spot for the next 10 years"? Since we can't "assess prospects in a vacuum", I guess there is no need to develop OF's or P's for the next 5 years, since all those spots are locked up. :rofl:

Felix Pie has nothing to do - at all - with Matt Angle's future as a MLB prospect. If he is good enough, he will play somewhere.

I'll say it again: If Matt Angle is the O's 25th best prospect, it is a sign that this is a deep system.

[QSII]

Get off the stereotype bus of people who obsess with age.

Get on it, because they both turn 30 the same year. "Age is the only undefeated opponent", as John Thompson is fond of saying. You only have a major league batting eye for a finite time. If you're spending that time trying to get proficient in the minor leagues, your stock is dropping. Age is always a factor. Otherwise Monatez would have been our top prospect for several years. Hands down best hitter in the system. Triple crown too. No brainer. Geezer though. Stock downgraded for AARP membership.

[QSII]

Now you've lost me. The point I'm trying to make is that we have a deep minor league system, with many potential MLB players. Your counter to that argument is "no, we don't, because Felix Pie is going to hold down a roster spot for the next 10 years"? Since we can't "assess prospects in a vacuum", I guess there is no need to develop OF's or P's for the next 5 years, since all those spots are locked up. :rofl:

Felix Pie has nothing to do - at all - with Matt Angle's future as a MLB prospect. If he is good enough, he will play somewhere.

I'll say it again: If Matt Angle is the O's 25th best prospect, it is a sign that this is a deep system.

You brought Angle in. Pie clearly demonstrates why he isn't a prospect. You didn't compare him to everybody else's 25 prospect either, which would be the only way to really prove whether our system is deep. It can't be deep by itself. It has to be deep relative to some other sample, like the other teams in the division at least. That was your point, demonstrating our system depth. It didn't. It demonstrated we have 25 guys in our system, and somebody had to be on the list.

[McLovin]

You brought Angle in. Pie clearly demonstrates why he isn't a prospect. You didn't compare him to everybody else's 25 prospect either, which would be the only way to really prove whether our system is deep. It can't be deep by itself. It has to be deep relative to some other sample, like the other teams in the division at least. That was your point, demonstrating our system depth. It didn't. It demonstrated we have 25 guys in our system, and somebody had to be on the list.

Actually, I did compare it to another system, in my original post. I compared it to the O's system 5 years ago.

I guess I just will keep having to repeat myself...

"There aren't a lot of advanced and sexy names. But there are a lot of prospects on this list who could turn into that. 5 years ago Tyler Kolodny might be a top 15 prospect for the O's, and he doesn't even crack this guy's top 50."

[Crazysilver03]

You brought Angle in. Pie clearly demonstrates why he isn't a prospect. You didn't compare him to everybody else's 25 prospect either, which would be the only way to really prove whether our system is deep. It can't be deep by itself. It has to be deep relative to some other sample, like the other teams in the division at least. That was your point, demonstrating our system depth. It didn't. It demonstrated we have 25 guys in our system, and somebody had to be on the list.

This is completely incompetent logic.

Pie doesn't demonstrate anything. Was Reimold not a prospect because we had Pie? Is Caleb Joseph not a prospect because we have Matt Wieters? Is Snyder not a prospect because we have Scott? Is Widlansky not a prospect because we have Snyder?

When the term "deep" is used it is in comparison to past years, where Angle could very well be a top 15 talent, but isnt this year.

[QBsILLEST1]

You brought Angle in. Pie clearly demonstrates why he isn't a prospect. You didn't compare him to everybody else's 25 prospect either, which would be the only way to really prove whether our system is deep. It can't be deep by itself. It has to be deep relative to some other sample, like the other teams in the division at least. That was your point, demonstrating our system depth. It didn't. It demonstrated we have 25 guys in our system, and somebody had to be on the list.

What does Pie have anything to do with Angle's prospect status? That makes absolutely no sense....at all. You can compare our septh this year to last year's. Its deep with a mixture of high ceiling guys with upside and a lower ceiling high floor guys, and they are all sprinkled through out the list. In this most recent draft, we added 13 or 14 prospects to our list. On top of that its not for sure that Both Tillman and Matusz will not be eligible for prospect status.

[QSII]

It gets even worse. Adam Jones is the same age. He and Pie are what 24 year old prospects look like. Not banjo A-ball players.

I wouldn't argue what the sytem looks like compared to 9/2/04. I can't even begin to quantify it. Random opinion carries the day on that. If we come up against that team some day, it'll be interesting. Let's see...Markakis? Loewen?

We need to produce monsters to catch up to our competition. We can't buy 'em, and they do. Over and over. I don't see many monsters on that list. The next tier of players has no competitive meaning whatsoever. You can call them depth. I call them filler.

[QBsILLEST1]

And compared to other systems, you want proof that we have depth? Brett Jacobson who we got from Detroit was ranked by Sickels as their 3rd best prospect, in our system he is our 34th best prospect according to this WP guy. Then, we have Randy Henry who was considered the 2nd best prospect in JuCo if he would have went back to JuCo this season and he was ranked 40th in the O's prospect list. As I said he was the 2nd ranked JuCo player for the 2010 season, guess who was #1? Bryce Harper, so next to Bryce he woulda been the next best....and this guy is 40th....We have depth if nothing else, if you dont see that then you dont know what your looking for.....

[QSII]

What does Pie have anything to do with Angle's prospect status? That makes absolutely no sense....at all. You can compare our septh this year to last year's. Its deep with a mixture of high ceiling guys with upside and a lower ceiling high floor guys, and they are all sprinkled through out the list. In this most recent draft, we added 13 or 14 prospects to our list. On top of that its not for sure that Both Tillman and Matusz will not be eligible for prospect status.

I didn't realize that depth was only relative to other years of the same team. I misinterpreted it as relative to our competition. I see that's a mistake, and we're good to go on that basis. I have no horse in that circular race. Seriously, I would never have responded to that concept.

Anybody think that list is deep compared to Boston or New York?

[QBsILLEST1]

It gets even worse. Adam Jones is the same age. He and Pie are what 24 year old prospects look like. Not banjo A-ball players.

I wouldn't argue what the sytem looks like compared to 9/2/04. I can't even begin to quantify it. Random opinion carries the day on that. If we come up against that team some day, it'll be interesting. Let's see...Markakis? Loewen?

We need to produce monsters to catch up to our competition. We can't buy 'em, and they do. Over and over. I don't see many monsters on that list. The next tier of players has no competitive meaning whatsoever. You can call them depth. I call them filler.

Why are you comparing AJ and Pie to Angle? Noi one said they were equally good prospects! Both AJ and Pie were top MLB prospects, Angle is quality depth who have a modest shot at being a MLer. We are not saying that Angle is a premium prospect, this is an apples to oranges comparison. Do you understand what the word depth means? Because apparently we arent on the same page here on the definition. My interpretation of it means inventory. Like AM says it, inventory so if one or 2 dont make it you still have others there who also have a shot. If Jones flops you have Pie, if Pie flops you have Reimold, if Reimold flops you have Angle, thats called depth. You do not have to have 5 top 10 MLB prospects in the same position to have depth.