O's to charge extra for tickets purchased on game day

[SilentJames]

Also Trea - you are WRONG again.

Last year was the first time in a DECADE that Fenway did not raise its prices from the previous year. And they are raising them again this year.

So from 1994-2008 every year there was a price increase.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3698030

They started increasing ticket prices long before they "got good" meaning their wild-card years in the late 90's

[amateurfan]

Yes, now contrast the average ticket price at Fenway Park to Camden Yards. Contrast that average per-capita income of Boston vs Baltimore. Contrast the MASN audience vs that of NESN audience.

THEY ARE NOT CONGRUENT. Why can't you get that? We can not play the same game Boston is.

I hope you're taking into account cost of living and I'd like to know the area you're including in your examination. In the past I have always included a larger area and do not recalling it being so vastly different.

Also, per capita may not be the best way to examine it. You need to examine wealth distribution. Average ticket prices can be misleading. There are plenty of seats available for all income levels.

Edit: just to be clear about my own position - I think the Orioles can raise ticket prices and be completely fine. A raise in ticket prices will not lead to attendance falling. The biggest reason for falling attendance is that the Orioles lose. I do not think that the Orioles can raise ticket prices to Boston level (not in one fell swoop anyways). I wouldn't want that to happen anyways.

[UMDTerrapins]

THe problem with the expanding market logic is that you can only expand this market so far. The Nationals changed that - but that has nothing to do with the pricing change.

I believe that this move isn't about trying to change anyone's behavior as two dollars really won't do that and the walk-up crowd is easily only about 5-7% of any game's given attendance. People that routinely walk up will still walk up.

It is about trying to tap a new revenue source.

Minor League markets are not as analogous as some people might want to think they are. Minor League ball has always been vastly cheaper and is frankly a different product and atmosphere. They have to stay as local as possible and create as family friendly an environment as they can because of the constant flux of the product.

The only minor league team that I can honestly say has maybe taken fans away from Camden Yards on a consistent basis is the Ironbirds. That is due laregly to the Ripken connection, the niceness of the brand new facility and the fact that Aberdeen is just far enough away to make coming to Camden Yards a pain in the but.

What bothers me about the move is that it does hurt city residents. The people that are most likely to go to a game on a whim are the people with the park right in their backyard, I know that is how I go to many of my games. Now, I am being penalized for that. Again, one buck will not stop me from doing this and it will most likely not stop a vast majority of the walk-up business - but it will stop some. Just as any price increase in any business for anything will stop someone from buying it. That is just basic economics.

Good post. Yeah, it doesn't affect me at all. I wouldn't drive all the way from Virginia without knowing I had good seats already. We agree that it is most likely to affect local fans most. I think that's hard to dispute. This increase is therefore directed primarily at the local community. Another reason it feels backwards to me.

[Sports Guy]

Come on, SG, there's a big difference and you know it...

For example, I only agree with you when you're right, while he agrees with you when you're wrong ;-)

Yea, there is...Trea talks baseball and doesn't put words into people's mouths and doesn't try to twist people's argument like a pretzel.

[Sports Guy]

Trea, you are showing in this thread that you have no clue as to what you are talking about in this regards...Just step away because really, you don't know what you are talking about.

[SilentJames]

The worst part about your post is that it's completely wrong. There is recent historical precedent for a resurgence in attendance. Whether it's winning or FA signings is irrelevant because the FAs Trea listed would drastically increase the wins.

Second, it would be justifiable to raise ticket prices if they signed so many FAs.

Third, which is a persistent problem in this city, Baltimore is not the dregs of the country it's citizens have led themselves to believe for generations. It's got a very large super-rich population in the city and county. It is surrounded by some of the wealthiest counties in the country. Houses are selling again (and at higher value than a year ago - by quite a bit). Baltimore is not made up of APA members only. Maryland's economy is one of the most stable and prosperous in the country. Baltimore itself has one of the largest private school populations in the country (and most expensive). I don't know what Baltimore it is that everyone pisses on. It's a metropolitan area over 5 million with a large diaspora in southern PA.

Fourth, posters here constantly don't understand other non-OH fans. People go to the Yard to have a good time. It doesn't matter how long they've been fans, how intense their feelings or attachments to the team are. If it's a good time, people go to games, that's it. This is the same for Boston and NY.

Fifth, people travel a long ways to see games. Yankee fans travel, often, from two hours away to go to to games (because it's fun if you're a Yankee fan). We ought not minimize the area from which we think fans will come. In VaBeach in elementary school, families took road trips to see Orioles games.

Go to St. Pete and see an area that is in dire straits: vacant strip malls built two years ago, construction abandoned midway, empty homes, no jobs.

The economic reality of this area is not what you think it is.

JTrea is not making a statement on the validity of building a team through spending lots of money (though he's done that plenty in the past, he's not doing it here). That's a separate argument.

Trea does post some nonsensical stuff. This is not one of them, however.

I'm surprised to see this because it seems like you hadn't posted in months, and just started up again.

Dude, the median income of the Baltimore metro-area is nowhere near the median income of say a Boston. Yes there are super-rich in the Baltimore area, but they are a VAST minority. The average Baltimore man takes home an income below the national average.

The median income in Baltimore County is 60K, more than double what the median income in the City is. Roughly, the average Baltimore metro family is earning somwehere in the range of 45-55K a year.

For comparison the Greater Boston (Boston Metro area) has a median income of well over 60K with Boston proper's median income in the solid 40's, with Baltimore proper being below that.

Boston has a much smaller percentage of people at or below the poverty line as well.

No, Baltimore is not the seventh level of Hell that some people make it out to be. I work, live and love Baltimore. But the facts are the facts, this town could not - nor would it support a team that cost on average 40 bucks a ticket to go see.

Boston gets away with that because of the culture of the town, the historic nature of the park and the false shortage of tickets due to the park's size.

[crowmst3k!]

Boston gets away with that because of the culture of the town, the historic nature of the park and the false shortage of tickets due to the park's size.

Not to mention that the Red Sox Territory is almost all of New England.

The Orioles have: Maryland, Southern PA, DC, Northern Virginia (less so on DC and NOVA because of the Nationals encroachment). The television revenue base for the Red Sox is colossal. What were the ratings on MASN last year for the Orioles and the Nationals? From what I remember they were pretty dismal. MASN still has a lot of ground to cover before they bring in revenue even close to parity with NESN.

[Kevin Lomax]

The point is season plans wouldn't be down as much if at all if the Orioles had done more to address the deficiencies in their on-field product.

So instead of doing something that would be seen as positive to fans to generate revenue, they are doing something negative.

It's a lose/lose situation that they are in right now, and it does suck.

But it was totally avoidable IMO.

Yeah, never mind that the entire nation is in a recession.

Lucky for me this increase won't affect me at all. Because unlike Jtrea, I actually go to the games and watch the Orioles. But, I'm super rich. I sprinkle crushed diamonds on all my meals. It makes my dookie sparkle.

[Mad Mark]

How many pages are we into this, now? That many, eh?

This move has absolutely nothing to do with the Orioles PLAYER payroll. It has absolutely everything to do with charging the walk-up purchaser the additional cost of having somebody at a window to sell them a ticket, live and in person, on game day.

Every time I exchange a season ticket via email, I pay the same $2 per ticket fee that is causing this scramble for pitchforks and torches. You know how much it pisses me off? Not one tiny little bit. Convenience ain't free. Never has been. Deal with it. And for those of you who are complaining about this and never go to games, all I have to say to you is !

[Mad Mark]

Yeah, never mind that the entire nation is in a recession.

Lucky for me this increase won't affect me at all. Because unlike Jtrea, I actually go to the games and watch the Orioles. But, I'm super rich. I sprinkle crushed diamonds on all my meals. It makes my dookie sparkle.

I find gold dust will also make your dookie sparkle, too and is somewhat less painful going down! :rofl:

[Kevin Lomax]

I find gold dust will also make your dookie sparkle, too and is somewhat less painful going down! :rofl:

The pain is part of the joy. It hurts so good.

[Mad Mark]

The pain is part of the joy. It hurts so good.

That's what she said! :wedge:

[Peace21]

Wow 11 pages. Can I get a play-by-play of this thread from about page 2 on?

[Remember The Alomar]

Wow 11 pages. Can I get a play-by-play of this thread from about page 2 on?

There was moral outrage, followed by SG being levelheaded, followed by Trea being outraged, followed by the not so stunning comeback of "you don't watch the games/ go to any". The End.

It's a good read though. I'd give it four WOW offers out of five.

[Kevin Lomax]

Wow 11 pages. Can I get a play-by-play of this thread from about page 2 on?

Some people don't like the charge. Some people don't mind it. Jtrea derails it with such delusion that Sports Guy can't even defend him. Many different people argue in circles.

There was a graph on page 5 that correlated the 2 dollar increase to global warming but it was largely discredited.

A financial offer is on the table to Jtrea to stop posting here. He has not accepted but he hasn't declined either.

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