O's to charge extra for tickets purchased on game day

[Lucky Jim]

I haven't seen too many teams hike the price of tickets before they do anything that warrants that hike.

When the demand increases for tickets, then that's usually when prices go up.

What "hike" are you talking about? A $2 fee?

Second, prices go up all the time. You realize that, right? Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Price_Index

[SilentJames]

I haven't seen too many teams hike the price of tickets before they do anything that warrants that hike.

When the demand increases for tickets, then that's usually when prices go up.

If the Orioles intent is to raise revenue to spend on a payroll increase, they are going about it in a backwards fashion. However if they are looking for purely profit, the increase makes sense.

If MacPhail were to pull off a trade for a high salary player before the season were to commence, say a Miguel Cabrera, then the increase would be justified on a payroll ramping scale.

Trea, that is not how things work. A two-dollar fee for walk-ups will not pay for M-Cab. Seriously.

The Orioles bread and butter are SEASON TICKET PLANS.

This move means this - season plans are down again (as they are all over the league) and the Orioles are looking for another revenue stream. These are the unfortunate things that businesses need to do sometime.

So, they either raise ALL ticket prices for everyone, and have you and everyone else claim the exact same injustice, or target a fee that will effect as small an amount of customers as possible while still generating some reasonable form of income. It sucks, it sucks a lot.

[JTrea81]

This move means this - season plans are down again (as they are all over the league) and the Orioles are looking for another revenue stream. These are the unfortunate things that businesses need to do sometime.

The point is season plans wouldn't be down as much if at all if the Orioles had done more to address the deficiencies in their on-field product.

So instead of doing something that would be seen as positive to fans to generate revenue, they are doing something negative.

It's a lose/lose situation that they are in right now, and it does suck.

But it was totally avoidable IMO.

[UMDTerrapins]

It remains to be seen if this is a change that alters fan behavior. Do fans who walk-up now NOT go to games because it will cost more? Do they plan ahead more often? Do they suck up the surcharge and go to games on a whim like they have in past? That's a business decision for the Orioles that may be worth it for their bottom line.

I'm a big believer to expanding markets rather than squeezing every penny out of the market you already have. I think this is working backwards. And it has nothing to do with the payroll or quality of product you're putting on the field. Creating a disincentive for people to see a game impulsively, to me, is bizarre and a poor business decision. Particularly now. It's not a killer on its own, but it's part of a continuing trend that has already priced a lot of people out of the ballpark. And even for someone like me who can afford it, I choose not to because I prefer the minor league experience and feel like my money is being earned and not just their right.

[JTrea81]

It remains to be seen if this is a change that alters fan behavior. Do fans who walk-up now NOT go to games because it will cost more? Do they plan ahead more often? Do they suck up the surcharge and go to games on a whim like they have in past? That's a business decision for the Orioles that may be worth it for their bottom line.

I'm a big believer to expanding markets rather than squeezing every penny out of the market you already have. I think this is working backwards. Creating a disincentive for people to see a game to me is bizarre and a poor business decision. Particularly now. It's not a killer on its own, but it's part of a continuing trend that has already priced a lot of people out of the ballpark. And even for someone like me who can afford it, I choose not to because I prefer the minor league experience and feel like my money is being earned.

You bring up an interesting point because it seems the Orioles have concentrated on restoring the minors so much at the expense of the ML team, that the minor league product has become more enjoyable to watch and the minor league attendance has grown and most likely has taken away fans from the ML product.

It's more entertaining, cheaper thus a much more attractive draw for fans of the Orioles that don't live in Baltimore.

[SilentJames]

The point is season plans wouldn't be down as much if at all if the Orioles had done more to address the deficiencies in their on-field product.

So instead of doing something that would be seen as positive to fans to generate revenue, they are doing something negative.

It's a lose/lose situation that they are in right now, and it does suck.

But it was totally avoidable IMO.

But it is not SMART for the Orioles spend a ton of money on MCab. It is not SMART for the Orioles to trade four-five players for two years of Alex Gonzalez. it is not SMART for the Orioles to pay Matt Holliday more money than Albert Pujols.

There were no real big names that were going to get landed this season. I know that is hard for you to grasp because you must think that this is some sort of video game. But the Orioles are building for LONG-TERM stability.

If the Orioles have a solid season, and the players have seasons that you yourself said they are capable of having, then people will be interested and attendance will rise.

2005 was proof enough of that.

The moves you keep saying the Orioles should make are great PR moves and will sell season plans - but they are terrible baseball moves. I mean, do you want to make Angelos money, or do you want long-term success? Because right now your plan makes Peter Angelos a ton of money while not doing much to help the long-term success of the franchise.

[SilentJames]

You bring up an interesting point because it seems the Orioles have concentrated on restoring the minors so much at the expense of the ML team, that the minor league product has become more enjoyable to watch and the minor league attendance has grown and most likely has taken away fans from the ML product.

It's more entertaining, cheaper thus a much more attractive draw for fans of the Orioles that don't live in Baltimore.

And you would know this how?

[UMDTerrapins]

You bring up an interesting point because it seems the Orioles have concentrated on restoring the minors so much at the expense of the ML team, that the minor league product has become more enjoyable to watch and the minor league attendance has grown and most likely has taken away fans from the ML product.

It's more entertaining, cheaper thus a much more attractive draw for fans of the Orioles that don't live in Baltimore.

Not to disagree necessarily, but I've felt this way a long while now and changed my behavior many years ago, when the O's system sucked. It has been a lot nicer watching good players the past few years though!

[JTrea81]

But it is not SMART for the Orioles spend a ton of money on MCab. It is not SMART for the Orioles to trade four-five players for two years of Alex Gonzalez. it is not SMART for the Orioles to pay Matt Holliday more money than Albert Pujols.

There were no real big names that were going to get landed this season. I know that is hard for you to grasp because you must think that this is some sort of video game. But the Orioles are building for LONG-TERM stability.

If the Orioles have a solid season, and the players have seasons that you yourself said they are capable of having, then people will be interested and attendance will rise.

2005 was proof enough of that.

The moves you keep saying the Orioles should make are great PR moves and will sell season plans - but they are terrible baseball moves. I mean, do you want to make Angelos money, or do you want long-term success? Because right now your plan makes Peter Angelos a ton of money while not doing much to help the long-term success of the franchise.

What we are doing doesn't guarantee us long term success either. And Peter is making a ton of money off of the profit that the Orioles aren't spending on payroll.

The other method has been proven to work for teams like Boston who increased the quality of their on-field product by taking some risks all the while building their farm system and when their team got good, they hiked the price of tickets to pay for maintaining that status and also because they could due to the demand to see the on-field product.

Boston is proof that your major league team doesn't have to suck while you are buildiing your organizational infrastructure. You can do both.

[RShack]

Come on now, that's not fair...Besides, if we are going to do that, we should be doing it for Shack.

Come on, SG, there's a big difference and you know it...

For example, I only agree with you when you're right, while he agrees with you when you're wrong ;-)

[SilentJames]

It remains to be seen if this is a change that alters fan behavior. Do fans who walk-up now NOT go to games because it will cost more? Do they plan ahead more often? Do they suck up the surcharge and go to games on a whim like they have in past? That's a business decision for the Orioles that may be worth it for their bottom line.

I'm a big believer to expanding markets rather than squeezing every penny out of the market you already have. I think this is working backwards. And it has nothing to do with the payroll or quality of product you're putting on the field. Creating a disincentive for people to see a game impulsively, to me, is bizarre and a poor business decision. Particularly now. It's not a killer on its own, but it's part of a continuing trend that has already priced a lot of people out of the ballpark. And even for someone like me who can afford it, I choose not to because I prefer the minor league experience and feel like my money is being earned and not just their right.

THe problem with the expanding market logic is that you can only expand this market so far. The Nationals changed that - but that has nothing to do with the pricing change.

I believe that this move isn't about trying to change anyone's behavior as two dollars really won't do that and the walk-up crowd is easily only about 5-7% of any game's given attendance. People that routinely walk up will still walk up.

It is about trying to tap a new revenue source.

Minor League markets are not as analogous as some people might want to think they are. Minor League ball has always been vastly cheaper and is frankly a different product and atmosphere. They have to stay as local as possible and create as family friendly an environment as they can because of the constant flux of the product.

The only minor league team that I can honestly say has maybe taken fans away from Camden Yards on a consistent basis is the Ironbirds. That is due laregly to the Ripken connection, the niceness of the brand new facility and the fact that Aberdeen is just far enough away to make coming to Camden Yards a pain in the but.

What bothers me about the move is that it does hurt city residents. The people that are most likely to go to a game on a whim are the people with the park right in their backyard, I know that is how I go to many of my games. Now, I am being penalized for that. Again, one buck will not stop me from doing this and it will most likely not stop a vast majority of the walk-up business - but it will stop some. Just as any price increase in any business for anything will stop someone from buying it. That is just basic economics.

[SilentJames]

What we are doing doesn't guarantee us long term success either. And Peter is making a ton of money off of the profit that the Orioles aren't spending on payroll.

The other method has been proven to work for teams like Boston who increased the quality of their on-field product by taking some risks all the while building their farm system and when their team got good, they hiked the price of tickets to pay for maintaining that status and also because they could due to the demand to see the on-field product.

Boston is proof that your major league team doesn't have to suck while you are buildiing your organizational infrastructure. You can do both.

Yes, now contrast the average ticket price at Fenway Park to Camden Yards. Contrast that average per-capita income of Boston vs Baltimore. Contrast the MASN audience vs that of NESN audience.

THEY ARE NOT CONGRUENT. Why can't you get that? We can not play the same game Boston is.

[Moose Milligan]

Yes, now contrast the average ticket price at Fenway Park to Camden Yards. Contrast that average per-capita income of Boston vs Baltimore. Contrast the MASN audience vs that of NESN audience.

THEY ARE NOT CONGRUENT. Why can't you get that? We can not play the same game Boston is.

Stop using big words, teach.

[SilentJames]

Stop using big words, teach.

I have to, it is my job. The devil blast my voluminous wordosity!

[amateurfan]

NO...THEY...COULDN'T. Now I realize I'm standing foolishly at the confluence of your three major fetishes, but you're so far out in left field here as to be on the other side of the fence.

I've said this to you before and I'll say it again now. I have skin in this game. You don't. Until you live here and buy tickets here and go to games here on a regular basis all your theoreticals are just that: theoreticals. You clearly have no grasp of economic reality, especially as it relates to the running of a MLB team in BALTIMORE. So--while I realize this will do no good whatsoever--I must ask you to stop. Just...please...stop. When you have an actual point to make about something you actually know something about, please do. But if you're just going to keep beating your drum about how much this organization, Andy MacPhail and life in general suck--while NOT WATCHING THE GAMES--I would be willing to pay you NOT to post here any more.

How's that "complete ignore" thing work, again???

The worst part about your post is that it's completely wrong. There is recent historical precedent for a resurgence in attendance. Whether it's winning or FA signings is irrelevant because the FAs Trea listed would drastically increase the wins.

Second, it would be justifiable to raise ticket prices if they signed so many FAs.

Third, which is a persistent problem in this city, Baltimore is not the dregs of the country it's citizens have led themselves to believe for generations. It's got a very large super-rich population in the city and county. It is surrounded by some of the wealthiest counties in the country. Houses are selling again (and at higher value than a year ago - by quite a bit). Baltimore is not made up of APA members only. Maryland's economy is one of the most stable and prosperous in the country. Baltimore itself has one of the largest private school populations in the country (and most expensive). I don't know what Baltimore it is that everyone pisses on. It's a metropolitan area over 5 million with a large diaspora in southern PA.

Fourth, posters here constantly don't understand other non-OH fans. People go to the Yard to have a good time. It doesn't matter how long they've been fans, how intense their feelings or attachments to the team are. If it's a good time, people go to games, that's it. This is the same for Boston and NY.

Fifth, people travel a long ways to see games. Yankee fans travel, often, from two hours away to go to to games (because it's fun if you're a Yankee fan). We ought not minimize the area from which we think fans will come. In VaBeach in elementary school, families took road trips to see Orioles games.

Go to St. Pete and see an area that is in dire straits: vacant strip malls built two years ago, construction abandoned midway, empty homes, no jobs.

The economic reality of this area is not what you think it is.

JTrea is not making a statement on the validity of building a team through spending lots of money (though he's done that plenty in the past, he's not doing it here). That's a separate argument.

You consistently type nonsensical, ridiculous things on this board, but this post and those that proceeded it in this thread are outrageous even for you. You may be the most illogical person I've ever encountered that reads and writes at a college level. It is truly breathtaking how BAD your opinions are at times.

Trea does post some nonsensical stuff. This is not one of them, however.

I agree completely. This is the 4th post I've seen advocating this position. I think it has merit. I'd be willing to put up a recurring sum to get him off this board. Something like 10-20 bucks per week. I think we could make this happen.

I'm surprised to see this because it seems like you hadn't posted in months, and just started up again.