I am not a Dave Trembley fan...

[RShack]

You need to take them in context. When you take them out of context like that it's easy to reach that conclusion.

Actually, he did not take them out of context. He included plenty of stuff that put them in context.

I think your biased view of my posts in general has clouded your vision of what I am trying to say.

Yet another quote of the day.

JTrea, you expect the worst of everybody who's associated with the Orioles. You routinely respond as if everybody's a goof-off slacker who's trying to see how much they can get away with. You think punishment is required for people to work at doing their job right. Now, maybe that's what your work ethic is, maybe that's how an employer needs to treat you. But you have zero basis for assuming that's how professional athletes approach their careers. Your idea of "holding them accountable" boils down to you posting a lot of nonsense that does nothing at all but annoy people here...

[CSB Jack]

SG - great original post. I agree with everything you said about DT, and I'd like to see him succeed because that also means that the Orioles succeed. For this year I would define that as .500 or better, which won't be easy, even with Roberts healthy all year. Whether he demonstrates that he is the right guy to manage the team beyond 2010 remains to be seen, but he does have a solid baseball pedigree.

JTrea - you have taken quite a pounding on this one, but I admire your Timex-like ability to take a licking and keep on ticking. I even agree with your central premise, that the manager should hold players accountable for how they play. I also agree with the idea that AM should hold DT accountable for how he manages his players, especially for how he gets them ready for each game and for the whole season.

However, I don't make the assumption that because DT is not screaming at players in the dugout or throwing them under the bus in press conferences that he is not speaking with them about expectations or doing his best to have them prepared for the situations they are facing. At some point it becomes the responsibility of each individual player to execute. What Bell is experiencing now is part of the learning process, and something he is sure to take with him to Norfolk this year.

Physical errors happen. Even Brooks made them. Willie Davis was an excellent defensive outfielder but he made three errors in one inning of a World Series game. No manager can prevent that, except by not putting guys in positions they are not capable of handling. It's when the players are making mistakes or errors from lack of preparation that managers are most responsible. When players are making mental errors or not playing smart or hard the manager especially needs to take prompt action. Exactly how the manager "drops the hammer" or "holds them accountable" in that situation is something that he can be judged on. It will be interesting to see how DT handles those kinds of issues this season.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think every error should be met with a public stoning...That will definitely get the point across that this stuff won't be tolerated.

And will help hold others accountable too, don't forget.

I think owners and managers should be given wide latitude to fine players, like Andrew Freedman did when he ran the Giants in the 1890s. He once fined Amos Rusie about 1/4 of his season salary for "not bearing down hard enough" in a season where he led the NL in strikeouts and shutouts and won 23 games for a 9th-place team.

If Bell got fined $100k for each error he'd get his act together quick! That's putting the hammer down!

[ledzepp8]

Glad to see you haven't stopped blowing my points out of proportion to try to prove your point... :rolleyestf:

Nowhere have I suggested Josh Bell is an overhyped prospect hung up on his own ego. Not once.

Nope, you just said that he could be and that we should just "drop the hammer" on him even if there's no need.

You just can't help making illogical arguments...it's like an addiction for you.

[RShack]

JTrea - you have taken quite a pounding on this one, but I admire your Timex-like ability to take a licking and keep on ticking. I even agree with your central premise, that the manager should hold players accountable for how they play. I also agree with the idea that AM should hold DT accountable for how he manages his players, especially for how he gets them ready for each game and for the whole season.

However, I don't make the assumption that because DT is not screaming at players in the dugout or throwing them under the bus in press conferences that he is not speaking with them about expectations or doing his best to have them prepared for the situations they are facing. At some point it becomes the responsibility of each individual player to execute. What Bell is experiencing now is part of the learning process, and something he is sure to take with him to Norfolk this year.

Physical errors happen. Even Brooks made them. Willie Davis was an excellent defensive outfielder but he made three errors in one inning of a World Series game. No manager can prevent that, except by not putting guys in positions they are not capable of handling. It's when the players are making mistakes or errors from lack of preparation that managers are most responsible. When players are making mental errors or not playing smart or hard the manager especially needs to take prompt action. Exactly how the manager "drops the hammer" or "holds them accountable" in that situation is something that he can be judged on. It will be interesting to see how DT handles those kinds of issues this season.

The only part of this that's gonna get through Trea's lead-lined mental force field is the first part. He's gonna take that part to heart, and think it's evidence that he's doing something noble. The rest of it is just gonna bounce off without making even a tiny dent.

[PBR Street Gang]

It's cool how it can be clearly open season on some posters. Is there a list somewhere of them so we won't be sanctioned if we somehow stumble and do it to the wrong "expert"?

[byrdz]

It's cool how it can be clearly open season on some posters. Is there a list somewhere of them so we won't be sanctioned if we somehow stumble and do it to the wrong "expert"?

No one is immuned from a good ole fashioned challenged as long as you operate within the rules. Silly statements tend to draw more attention, like bees to honey, white to rice, flys to....well, you get it.

BTW, Is your name a reference to Apocalypse Now?

"PBR Street gang, this is Almighty, do you copy"

.

[RShack]

It's cool how it can be clearly open season on some posters. Is there a list somewhere of them so we won't be sanctioned if we somehow stumble and do it to the wrong "expert"?

I'm guessing a hint would be when a thread gets derailed by one guy making a significant numbers of posts saying unfounded extremist stuff, and then, when faced with a slew of different folks who are trying to reason with him, doesn't give an inch about anything, and instead tells everybody else that they're biased. When you see that happening, it might be a clue...

Now, there are other folks you can give crap to without requiring them to make a big multi-post push that paints a bullseye on their forehead. I'm one of them, SG is another. While we have different online demeanors, we each have our own way of annoying others. I don't think anybody gets in trouble for giving crap to me or to him, which is fine. In contrast, nobody gives much crap to Dip, just because he's a nice guy, or to Frobby, who is pathologically fair and reasonable. Sometimes somebody will give crap to Moose, but that just shows that they're missing the point.

[PBR Street Gang]

Gotcha.

[TinCup]

I'm guessing a hint would be when a thread gets derailed by one guy making a significant numbers of posts saying unfounded extremist stuff, and then, when faced with a slew of different folks who are trying to reason with him, doesn't give an inch about anything, and instead tells everybody else that they're biased. When you see that happening, it might be a clue...

Now, there are other folks you can give crap to without requiring them to make a big multi-post push that paints a bullseye on their forehead. I'm one of them, SG is another. While we have different online demeanors, we each have our own way of annoying others. I don't think anybody gets in trouble for giving crap to me or to him, which is fine. In contrast, nobody gives much crap to Dip, just because he's a nice guy, or to Frobby, who is pathologically fair and reasonable. Sometimes somebody will give crap to Moose, but that just shows that they're missing the point.

Well now, I gotta say this post of your's Shack is simply full of....well.... "crap".

[ledzepp8]

Actually, he did not take them out of context. He included plenty of stuff that put them in context.

Yep, it's pretty bad to accuse someone of taking you out of context when they quote you word-for-word.

[BRobinsonfan]

You need to take them in context. When you take them out of context like that it's easy to reach that conclusion.

I think your biased view of my posts in general has clouded your vision of what I am trying to say.

Because I am not intending to imply that Bell any of those things.

Just because a word is associated with a player doesn't mean that word defines him.

So.... just because you're saying these things about him doesn't mean you mean the things you say about him? Is that what you're saying?

By the way... how long have you lived in this country? Your written english is really pretty good even if your comprehension suffers a bit.

[McNulty]

Sometimes somebody will give crap to Moose, but that just shows that they're missing the point.

Its just too much fun giving Milligan crap.

The Evil Genius on display again, ladies and gentlemen!

[JTrea81]

So.... just because you're saying these things about him doesn't mean you mean the things you say about him? Is that what you're saying?

By the way... how long have you lived in this country? Your written english is really pretty good even if your comprehension suffers a bit.

What I am saying is that every professional baseball player has some bit of ego or feelings of complacency IMO, even if it's only a tiny bit. It's naive to think they don't.

Now that may not be a bad thing because you want guys to feel confident and sure of their abilities and place, but if those levels increase for any reason so they are a problem, Spring Training is the time to take care of that once and for all, and it's Trembley's job to do it as he said he would.

I just used Bell as an example, but it could apply to any Oriole player be it Craig Tatum or Brian Matusz.

That's all I'm saying, and people are twisting it into "JTrea thinks Josh Bell is a lazy malcontent," which is complete fiction.

[Mad Mark]

So, anyway before the school bus rolled over and exploded, killing several...I think this thread was in some vague way related to Dave Trembley. Can't recall if there was a hammer in the OP, but...whatever.

I kind of wish there were two Dave Trembleys: one to manage the team and one to be the color guy in the booth. His pressers are priceless.

And as to the madness emanating from the state of Maine, I'm not going there this time.